For what it's worth, although the HDS is obviously an excellent performer, I still think the SB26ADC is superior for this application, and that's not even considering its cheaper price point.
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When working in a mixing/mastering position, everything it´s going on at the sweet spot.
Specially nowadays when most of the work is done ITB (in the box). Meaning your working position it´s going to be centred looking at a Monitor Mac/Pc.
When I move, it´s no more than 0.5mts (1.6feet) to make a tweak in hardware gear. I may change something in a compressor, and go back to the sweet spot to hear the difference, as my stereo representation is going on in the middle.
I don´t know if there is a huge difference in this application regarding to off-axis response.
I have seen Lipinski using Peerless XT25 ring radiators and Barefoot using ScanSpeak Illuminator R3004/6620. Their Off-axis response is actually very poor compared to other tweeters.
I think it´s more important a great on-axis response and quality.
Although! Off-axis RTA its´something really important to take into account when matching the Mid-Driver, as you actually need to get that off-axis dispersion as smooth as possible. No bumps in the middle.
Frecuency cut with the tweeter should match where the mid starts to roll off.
thoughts?
Specially nowadays when most of the work is done ITB (in the box). Meaning your working position it´s going to be centred looking at a Monitor Mac/Pc.
When I move, it´s no more than 0.5mts (1.6feet) to make a tweak in hardware gear. I may change something in a compressor, and go back to the sweet spot to hear the difference, as my stereo representation is going on in the middle.
I don´t know if there is a huge difference in this application regarding to off-axis response.
I have seen Lipinski using Peerless XT25 ring radiators and Barefoot using ScanSpeak Illuminator R3004/6620. Their Off-axis response is actually very poor compared to other tweeters.
I think it´s more important a great on-axis response and quality.
Although! Off-axis RTA its´something really important to take into account when matching the Mid-Driver, as you actually need to get that off-axis dispersion as smooth as possible. No bumps in the middle.
Frecuency cut with the tweeter should match where the mid starts to roll off.
thoughts?
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The Facebook link doesn't really work for me, I'm not sure which photo is being referred to.
For the second link, yes, the speaker uses an SB mid from their NBAC lineup which are top-class drivers.
Hello everyone!
I just ordered!
x2 Eton 5-512 C8 25RP Orchestra Midwoofers 88db sens
x2 Scanspeak D2608/9130 Tweeters 91.5db sens
to mach with the Eton 11" Orchestra series. 91dbsens...
I hope they can match in sensibility taking into account the woofer baffle step loss. I´ll guess I´ll have to give it a try!?
Is that too low sensibility for a mid? thoughts more than welcome!
Cheers!
I just ordered!
x2 Eton 5-512 C8 25RP Orchestra Midwoofers 88db sens
x2 Scanspeak D2608/9130 Tweeters 91.5db sens
to mach with the Eton 11" Orchestra series. 91dbsens...
I hope they can match in sensibility taking into account the woofer baffle step loss. I´ll guess I´ll have to give it a try!?
Is that too low sensibility for a mid? thoughts more than welcome!
Cheers!
I just breezed through this thread and I did not see you mention specifically if you were designing and active system or passive. If you did mention it, I appologize for not reading more carefully.
There are several compelling advantages for doing an active crossover between the 11 inch woofer and the 5 inch mid.
There are several compelling advantages for doing an active crossover between the 11 inch woofer and the 5 inch mid.
No problem! i didn´t mention it...
It´s a passive system, Bi-Amp
Lows separated from Mid-Hi...
I was about to get a different mid, with higher Sensibility to match with the 11" woofer. But I was told to not go that far as I might get baffle step loss...
It´s a passive system, Bi-Amp
Lows separated from Mid-Hi...
I was about to get a different mid, with higher Sensibility to match with the 11" woofer. But I was told to not go that far as I might get baffle step loss...
I just took a quick look at your sims back in post #65 and the mid in XSim just with the raw frd and zma files, and I'm pretty sure you won't have to worry about the mid's matching SPL level as long as the factory specs are accurate.
As an aside, you might try a simple tanking filter with a single cap in parallel to the mid LP inductor instead of a complete parallel LCR notch filter. Start with about 1uF and then fine tune it from there.
As an aside, you might try a simple tanking filter with a single cap in parallel to the mid LP inductor instead of a complete parallel LCR notch filter. Start with about 1uF and then fine tune it from there.
I guess he meant "tank circuit" which is an old-fashioned expression for a parallel resonant circuit (Parallelschwingkreis).
Regards
Charles
Regards
Charles
What you have is lower/middle frequencies reaching all around. They reflect off the wall behind the speaker. These modes affect the response unevenly at different frequencies. Where you have yours is quite close and can adversely affect your midrange.
Any serious studio design involves -amongst other aspects- directivity of the monitors, (first) reflections from boundaries and objects (desks notably) and modal behavior of the room. Part of it can be controlled/influenced by making the right choices in monitor design. Part of it is monitor placement and part of it is room treatment. If you let one part out you are way off the track.
AllenB & markbakk!
Behind the monitors there is a huge Panel that works as a bass trap. Full of Rock Wool ok 120Kg m3 of density. That´s pretty hi.
The speakers from the front wall are actually 0.8mts away. Same from the sides.
On the sides, where you can see the pictures hanging. Same thing. Full of Glass Wool, of less density, but still; bass trap.
I have builded a couple of recording studios over the years, always with great success, happy clients. I do have to recognize that mine it´s not the best one, although it works perfect. I already tried different monitors in the room, and all sounded very different. Different in a way you could listen to monitors "texture".
I really don´t think the problem here is room acoustics. I am just looking for a clear, transparent mid that can match the Eton 11"
Behind the monitors there is a huge Panel that works as a bass trap. Full of Rock Wool ok 120Kg m3 of density. That´s pretty hi.
The speakers from the front wall are actually 0.8mts away. Same from the sides.
On the sides, where you can see the pictures hanging. Same thing. Full of Glass Wool, of less density, but still; bass trap.
I have builded a couple of recording studios over the years, always with great success, happy clients. I do have to recognize that mine it´s not the best one, although it works perfect. I already tried different monitors in the room, and all sounded very different. Different in a way you could listen to monitors "texture".
I really don´t think the problem here is room acoustics. I am just looking for a clear, transparent mid that can match the Eton 11"
Got it! I´ll try that. Never used it before...
BTW!
I canceled my order because I was not sure of my choice... and I am between this two candidates now. Better than the Eton paper mid...
ETON 5-212/C8/25 Hex 5" (could build a Classic 3way system)
VOLT BM165.108 6.5" (Would have to go with satellites + sub)
Eton is 50w, that bothers me a little. Altough cutted at lets say, 350, couldn´t be a problem right?
Volt is 100w. But I guess it was meant to get really low in FR.
what would you go for?
Just fyi, I thought the first Eton mid modeled nicely. Assuming of course that the spec sheets are accurate. I've attached what I came up with. All baffle and box effects are included in the sim.
I took advantage of the little boost you get around 90Hz on the woofer by not using an impedance compensation filter and boosting the vented response just a tad and ended up with a speaker sensitivity of about 88.5dB 2.83V at 1m. Result was quite flat ending up about +- 1.5dB. Pictured is with 5W to achieve your stated max of about 95dB. 50W power limit on the mid should not be a problem. Imho, a 100W mid is not a requirement.
Sound quality of your mid selections I can't comment on though, other than the Scan and Satori which have become industry standards at this point.
I took advantage of the little boost you get around 90Hz on the woofer by not using an impedance compensation filter and boosting the vented response just a tad and ended up with a speaker sensitivity of about 88.5dB 2.83V at 1m. Result was quite flat ending up about +- 1.5dB. Pictured is with 5W to achieve your stated max of about 95dB. 50W power limit on the mid should not be a problem. Imho, a 100W mid is not a requirement.
Sound quality of your mid selections I can't comment on though, other than the Scan and Satori which have become industry standards at this point.
Attachments
I notice you stick to your choices. IMHO just go ahead and build something. Btw 120kg/m3 is too dense for bass traps. Works good from about 100Hz, depending on thickness of the layer and if a void is used behind the panel.
3way Studio Design PART II
Hello Everyone!
I know it has been a while since my last post at this thread. Several points where discussed at that time, making me study tons of new concepts regarding speaker design. So for that, I have to thank you all! It´s been really educative! I am still learning!
After all recommendations, I decided to go for a 3 way system as planned, with:
- SCANSPEAK R2406-8330 DISCOVERY
- ETON 5-312/C8/25 HEX SYMPHONY II
- ETON 11-612/C8/50 RP ORCHESTRA
I builded the enclosures, test them & loved them! Really tight, transparent low, and crystal mids. Not so sure about the Tweeter yet, it only sounded good when cutted really hi, like at 3k.
Now, I am at the point of listening to different opinions from audio professionals & lovers! Building and designing the crossover, making some final adjustments to the enclosure and more...
I have some measurements I did with REW at my studio that I would like to share and listen to thoughts and opinions.
Also, redesigned a crossover with Xsim to "see how the final system could work"
Some things to take into consideration:
- My room it´s treated, but not perfect. Dealing with some Room Gain and Acoustic Nodes at low frequencies.
- The front Panel of the Enclosure it´s a prototype. The New one will have better, precise cuts. (I know this can affect directly on the tweeter for example).
- As my SPL Meter died this year, I couldn´t calibrate REW propertly (Only Soundcard & Mic). So you will see sensitivity off from where it should be.
Share your thoughts!
Here we go! : )
Hello Everyone!
I know it has been a while since my last post at this thread. Several points where discussed at that time, making me study tons of new concepts regarding speaker design. So for that, I have to thank you all! It´s been really educative! I am still learning!
After all recommendations, I decided to go for a 3 way system as planned, with:
- SCANSPEAK R2406-8330 DISCOVERY
- ETON 5-312/C8/25 HEX SYMPHONY II
- ETON 11-612/C8/50 RP ORCHESTRA
I builded the enclosures, test them & loved them! Really tight, transparent low, and crystal mids. Not so sure about the Tweeter yet, it only sounded good when cutted really hi, like at 3k.
Now, I am at the point of listening to different opinions from audio professionals & lovers! Building and designing the crossover, making some final adjustments to the enclosure and more...
I have some measurements I did with REW at my studio that I would like to share and listen to thoughts and opinions.
Also, redesigned a crossover with Xsim to "see how the final system could work"
Some things to take into consideration:
- My room it´s treated, but not perfect. Dealing with some Room Gain and Acoustic Nodes at low frequencies.
- The front Panel of the Enclosure it´s a prototype. The New one will have better, precise cuts. (I know this can affect directly on the tweeter for example).
- As my SPL Meter died this year, I couldn´t calibrate REW propertly (Only Soundcard & Mic). So you will see sensitivity off from where it should be.
Share your thoughts!
Here we go! : )
Project pics
Enclosure, Measurements at 1mt (microphone always at tweeter level), and xover design.
Enclosure, Measurements at 1mt (microphone always at tweeter level), and xover design.
Attachments
-
ETON SYMPHONY 5INCH BOX2 onethird.jpg -
ETON ORCHESTRA 11INCH BOX2 onethird.jpg -
XOVER V6 Impedance.jpg -
XOVER V6 Freq Response.jpg -
XOVER V6.jpg -
FF00429E-7A5D-49F1-9C9F-F05E4A4A47D0_1_105_c.jpeg -
C0D99F0C-195C-4F31-82CA-BF4F9C9284E5_1_105_c.jpeg -
6FE88DAA-CDCF-4077-9EF1-FDEC6FA28C4F_1_105_c.jpeg -
SCANSPEAK R2604 BOX2 onethird.jpg
Some comments:
- Impedance is going VERY low at high frequencies. What's going on there?
- The on axis SPL is high at 300 Hz and low Ar 3 kHz (xover frequencies), but that might not be a big deal.
- Try getting some off axis data to determine the power response, which will be more meaningful than the on axis SPL curve alone.
- Impedance is going VERY low at high frequencies. What's going on there?
- The on axis SPL is high at 300 Hz and low Ar 3 kHz (xover frequencies), but that might not be a big deal.
- Try getting some off axis data to determine the power response, which will be more meaningful than the on axis SPL curve alone.