Best speaker kit for smallish living room? (13x9x8)

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Xovaan

Member
Joined 2013
#1
Hey everyone,

Long time lurker here. Always blown away by the wonderful builds you all post!

I'm looking to build another set of speakers to celebrate a career milestone. However, a lot of the science-y stuff I've read is a bit over my head. I hear all sorts of different (and great) insights here on builds and I was wondering if anyone could guide me a bit better in my research toward my next set of speakers. 🙂

This is more of a speaker question than a room acoustic question: Unfortunately, I'm pretty tight on space (see pics) so paneling, while I know makes good kits into amazing kits, isn't really an option as far as I've seen.

Current Setup: AviaTrix MTM powered by an SMSL SA-98E (160 watt x 2) amplifier. Source is a HiFiBerry DAC+.
What I'm Looking For: Honestly, I absolutely love the sound of these speakers! I only really wish they had a bit more bass. So merely remedying this is an option as well 🙂

Room Size: ~13'x9'x8' LWH
Room Details: Next to kitchen (left) and large window (right). Only (audiophile) upstairs neighbor; no walls shared with any neighbors
Speaker Distance from Listener: ~13'
Budget: ~$2000* (not including amplifier)
Build Preferences: Premade or pre-cut cabinets / full kits. I can veneer, though I'm not averse to pre-finished / repurposed cabinets
Tools: Electronics workstation (Hakko digital soldering iron). No woodworking tools nor experience past veneering and maker places in my city are indefinitely shut due to Covid 🙁

*Price is flexible; by no means does it reflect what I need to spend, just an upper limit of what I'm comfortable spending. Lower priced kits absolutely are encouraged 🙂

Pictures of room (with dimensions) here:
Imgur: The magic of the Internet

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance 🙂
 
#4
The number of good designs you will find is very large and very diverse.

I like single FR speakers, they are simple, no XO goes a long way to giving them coherance and seemlessness that few speakers with XOs achieve.

As with every loudspeaker, one has to make compromises. Doing 10 octaves with a single driver is a very difficut task, and like most speakers bass extension is sacrifices for budget & speaker size. A FR will often have issues up top, resonances, and dispersion issues at higher frequencies. Some are still better than tweeters.

For your budget you purchase a pr of drivers, vrs multiple drivers and XO parts. So one would expect higher quality execution.

As long as you do not play really loud, or have a big room it is likely something could be found that will make you happy.

But we do need to know more about your tastes, amplifiers, budget before we have sufficient info to tease out a set of boxes that might be of interest.



dave
 
#5
What Dave is asking has to do with WHERE you chose to post your question. You have posted it in the forum that deals with single driver fullrange speaker building. There is another section that answers questions about multidriver systems usually with woofers, mids and tweeters. So are you looking to use a single driver? if not the mult-way section would get more responses that could help
 
#8
Hi, don't change speakers if you love them. A subwoofer would give you more bottom end and keep the sound you like
Combine this eventually with a room correction solution and it should get you a long way if you are willing to study a bit how it works. best
 
#9
What C37 says makes sense… but it will not fill the desire to make new mains :^)

Adding woofers is also something down with FRs to relieve the bottom and significntly reduce their compromises. True an XO has to be added, but it can be low enff in frequency that many of the issues with XOs disappear. Called a WAW (Woofer Assisted Wideband).

A12pw-MTM-comp.jpg


A proper MTM.

dave
 
#10
Thanks for the clarification on the terminology! I see what you mean now. 🙂 Yeah, I'm looking for a big single speaker style since I think it gives the best net benefits given my normal listening habits and choices in music.

I come from the headphone world-- my current setup is a homebrew Beta 22 with Audeze LCD-4 headphones. I really prefer good lows and mids over highs-- I have an extremely diverse taste in music, though I gravitate toward songs like the following:

Downtempo - Vok - Adrift:
Vok - Adrift - YouTube

Deep House Funk - Crazy P - Like A Fool:
Crazy P - Like A Fool - YouTube

Deep House Funk - Zero 7 - Don't Call It Love:
Zero 7 - Don't Call It Love (12" Version) - YouTube

Electronica - Submotion Orchestra - Variations:
Submotion Orchestra - Variations [Official Music Video] - YouTube

I'll also be using these speakers for my projector setup (acoustically transparent screen)

I don't listen particularly loudly-- the AviaTrix are 80 watts and are absurdly loud when turned up-- I have to put the 160 watt amp to 20% and then adjust my Spotify Connect to 50%, which is loud enough to drown out conversation, hah

The woofer-assisted wideband seems super interesting! Though given my absolute desire to make new speakers (hehe), I think the single speakers are the way to go-- I'll be moving the AviaTrix into my office to act as piano / PC media / recording speakers so they'll be still be getting a lot of use 🙂
 
#11
In the budget allowed I would consider to split it for upgrading the HifiBerry.

For instance you could add a reclocker isolator hat for the Raspberyy as the IanCanada FifoPi or the isolator/reclocker from Allo.

And if monney left an upgraded I2S input Dac to work with those reclocker or an upgraded dac hat. (Though nothing wrong with your Dac but often the source importance is underated).

Another remark could be : whatever you choose, if the loudspeaker are against the wall, choose the speaker that are made for that purpose (or EQ in the Rpi with a plugin)
 
#12
I don't listen particularly loudly-- the AviaTrix are 80 watts and are absurdly loud when turned up-- I have to put the 160 watt amp to 20% and then adjust my Spotify Connect to 50%, which is loud enough to drown out conversation, hah
Click to expand...

None of that really means anything. 160w is only 3dB more than 80w, and the volume is logarithmic, the source will have a level… you are usually likely using less than a watt average (actually way less), with the stuff you linked, 10dB, maybe a bit more headroom, so 25 w would likely mean never clipping, but how elegsntly an amp clips can be more important than the rated power.

A good 10w or so and the right speakers would likely be fine.

You want at least some bass, and keep in mind that a floorstander means no need for stands.

You probably don’t want to give up the depth a Frugel-Horn would need, some Pensils would suit.

Mark Audio Alpair 11ms or A10.3/p if you can find some. Fostex FF165wk (no Pensil for that (yet).

Lots of other stuff too. A quick sampling to give you an idea, some of Scott’s work (Woden Design). This is where he stashes his sketches for free for diy designs. I try to replace them with proper drawings, but his output is prodigious. Miscellaneous designs -Mark Audio, Fostex, TB, Dayton, Seas etc.

Budget. Suggests make for <$500 if you diy, more for a flat-pak, Bob Berner (Big Wood Studio) in PA is doing a growing number of flat-paks as people request them. Once he has the CNC for a design, manufactring as ordered is very doable. He is aready doing Frugel-Horns & some Pensils i believe).

dave
 
#17
diyiggy said:
In the budget allowed I would consider to split it for upgrading the HifiBerry.

For instance you could add a reclocker isolator hat for the Raspberyy as the IanCanada FifoPi or the isolator/reclocker from Allo.

And if monney left an upgraded I2S input Dac to work with those reclocker or an upgraded dac hat. (Though nothing wrong with your Dac but often the source importance is underated).

Another remark could be : whatever you choose, if the loudspeaker are against the wall, choose the speaker that are made for that purpose (or EQ in the Rpi with a plugin)
Click to expand...

Noted! I haven't noticed any audio shortcomings with the HiFiBerry offhand-- can you describe what I should be listening for using my current setup and what these upgrads would remedy?

nandappe said:
Dear Xovaan,

Latest small speakers can play back solid bass.
I listened to your favorite YouTube movie , so it was very well balanced.
So I tried to record at 3 meter away , and upload to YouTube.

"Vok-Adrift" plays by MarkAudio CHN519 , and recorded at 3meter(9.84ft) away. - YouTube
Click to expand...

Wow, thank you for the recording! That sounds really good! That's only a 3" driver? It honestly has a pretty big punch on par with my AviaTrix ND140-8 drivers, which is a 5.25" driver 🙂 I hope you liked the song too!

planet10 said:
None of that really means anything. 160w is only 3dB more than 80w, and the volume is logarithmic, the source will have a level… you are usually likely using less than a watt average (actually way less), with the stuff you linked, 10dB, maybe a bit more headroom, so 25 w would likely mean never clipping, but how elegsntly an amp clips can be more important than the rated power.

A good 10w or so and the right speakers would likely be fine.

You want at least some bass, and keep in mind that a floorstander means no need for stands.

You probably don’t want to give up the depth a Frugel-Horn would need, some Pensils would suit.

Mark Audio Alpair 11ms or A10.3/p if you can find some. Fostex FF165wk (no Pensil for that (yet).

Lots of other stuff too. A quick sampling to give you an idea, some of Scott’s work (Woden Design). This is where he stashes his sketches for free for diy designs. I try to replace them with proper drawings, but his output is prodigious. Miscellaneous designs -Mark Audio, Fostex, TB, Dayton, Seas etc.

Budget. Suggests make for <$500 if you diy, more for a flat-pak, Bob Berner (Big Wood Studio) in PA is doing a growing number of flat-paks as people request them. Once he has the CNC for a design, manufactring as ordered is very doable. He is aready doing Frugel-Horns & some Pensils i believe).

dave
Click to expand...

Oh absolutely-- I should have clarified: What I do know about speaker efficiency is that (and keep me honest here) if my AviaTrix speakers are 86dB/1watt/1m, it takes 1 watt to produce 86dB at 1 meter, and watts double for every 3dB I wish to increase, which is compounded on the distance I am from the speaker, right? I was more referring to that with a 160 watt amplifier, even with a logarithmic volume control, because I only need like 10 watts to produce very loud audio, I have to put my volume controls very low 🙂 am I correct in thinking this?

Regarding the drivers you linked: just repeating back so I understand-- you're saying that, in terms of preference for my needs, I should be seeking the Mark Audio Alpair A10.3 first, and if not in stock, the Alpair 11ms is a great second choice? However if they made a Pensil design for the Fostex FF165wk, that would be ideal?

I'm assuming you're saying Pensil is a great design because it's a slim case form that would fit in my room setup, yeah?

Would you say that the transition from two 5.25" drivers in my MTM setup to one 6.5" driver would be a substantial increase in the low end I'm looking for? Interesting if that's the case over a larger speaker-- I'm not sure how this works and would love to hear your thoughts. 🙂
 
#18
planet10 said:
You probably don’t want to give up the depth a Frugel-Horn would need, some Pensils would suit.



Budget. Suggests make for <$500 if you diy, more for a flat-pak, Bob Berner (Big Wood Studio) in PA is doing a growing number of flat-paks as people request them. Once he has the CNC for a design, manufactring as ordered is very doable. He is aready doing Frugel-Horns & some Pensils i believe).

dave
Click to expand...

Thanks for the shout out Dave! We've already exchanged emails.


Bob
 
#19
Xovaan said:
I should be seeking the Mark Audio Alpair A10.3 first, and if not in stock, the Alpair 11ms is a great second choice? However if they made a Pensil design for the Fostex FF165wk, that would be ideal?]
Click to expand...

They are all good. In something like the FHXL the cabinet dominates and bass extends to something like 35 Hz.

The A11ms with its monoSuspension will be the most finessed midTop, but may hav eissue at higher volumes in the LF. The A10.3 is a well tested and well liked driver (teh A11ms is new, the A10.3 the old), with 2 suspensions perhaps a bit more control at lower frequencies, but with a deficit up higher.

The Fostex with its larger cone has the potential to move more air and have more satisfactory bass levels.

I am currently listening to a box with the big brother to the 3” nandappe mentions with 2xPeerless 830870 in an ML-TL acting as bass helpers. They are every good. I have quite. af ew other very good speakers. It is easy to end up with way to many.

The point is that there are many choices, i pointed out some i thot might be most appropriate given the limited info provided and my experience — likely way more than most, but still only a fraction of what is out there. I have learned to be very careful when talking about drivers i have not played with.

Look around. explore, cruise Scott’s thread and pick out some boxes and or drivers that look interesting and we can explore options further.

I am sure others will chime in with their experiences.

Let me quickly mention 2 other drivers i have heard that might suit — Mark Audio CHN-110 and the SEAS FA22 (a simple sealed box, so fairly straightforward — if Bob is doing a flat-pak for you that is likely not an issue).

Each offers a different perspective on the music, with different strengths and weaknesses (keep in mind that a loudspeaker has more weaknesses than strengths, ie different compromises).

dave
 
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