The fullrangers are going to be used in my roadkill old Wharfedale Linton speakers which have fried tweeters:
Just need to build a little box for them. planet10 and Scottmoose are rather good at fullrangers, and we think this is worth trying for the cone tweeter sound we like.
You are doing alright here:
Try replacing the 6.8uF in the bass circuit with 4.7uF or 3.3uF. Might fill the hole and take the crossover higher. Still not convinced by that tweeter frequency response. Just looks wrong.
Just need to build a little box for them. planet10 and Scottmoose are rather good at fullrangers, and we think this is worth trying for the cone tweeter sound we like.
You are doing alright here:
Try replacing the 6.8uF in the bass circuit with 4.7uF or 3.3uF. Might fill the hole and take the crossover higher. Still not convinced by that tweeter frequency response. Just looks wrong.
So the full range will be used as a tweeter? I ask because i was under the impression that full range drivers can lobe earlier than tweeters? Is that not the case?
I like how warfdale sound, i used to have a set of technics too, must have been 15-20 years old but they sounded good, actually only threw them out a couple months back as the enclosures were goosed,
If you will bear with me in regards to this crossover, my new tweeter shud be here either today or tomorrow, im going to take new measurements using that and see if its easier to work with, ill post my first attempt on here for critique, ill also take off axis measurements too, just to really see whats going on. Could be thursday or friday when i upload the results though.
Can you just advice me as to why the inductor needs to be larger on the tweeter than i originally had? Will it burn out being that small or something?
I like how warfdale sound, i used to have a set of technics too, must have been 15-20 years old but they sounded good, actually only threw them out a couple months back as the enclosures were goosed,
If you will bear with me in regards to this crossover, my new tweeter shud be here either today or tomorrow, im going to take new measurements using that and see if its easier to work with, ill post my first attempt on here for critique, ill also take off axis measurements too, just to really see whats going on. Could be thursday or friday when i upload the results though.
Can you just advice me as to why the inductor needs to be larger on the tweeter than i originally had? Will it burn out being that small or something?
Last edited:
My tweeter is only coming tomorrow, but i just have a quick question, when i do the measurements on it should i use the bass removed sine sweep? I havent used that in the past because i need to test both the woofers and the tweeter playing together in which case ill have to play the normal sweep during that test. But for the tweeters alone frd file should i be using bass removed? Im wondering if that could be the cause of the tweeter response acting a bit wierd in the simulations? I dont use a cap on it as i was told 90db wont hurt the tweeter, im just curious about the method ive been using
So ive taken loads of measurements tonight with my new tweeter, on axis and one on 15,30,45,60,75,and 90 degrees, it actually has a flat response off axis when just running the pc83 drivers, which surprised me. But after taking those measurements ive had a quick attempt on xsim as i was curious how the new tweeter would react. Please tell me this attempt is better than my last, im at my witts end with it now.
The tweeter is a nd25fb-4
The tweeter is a nd25fb-4
Last edited:
I also checked to see if the drivers are in phase by inverting the tweeter polarity, since i dont know how to tell by using the phase lines, i think its ok?
This was my suggestion back at Post #2 and still seems like a good one:
You don't have to struggle so much. Just buy a kit from a designer who has lots of experience and has created something that will really sound good for you.
If you want a small MTM one suggestion is the very inexpensive Overnight Sensations MTM designed by Paul Carmody. Only $118 each at Meniscus Audio. Other good choices also in that price range can be found at Madisound, Parts Express, and diysoundgroup.
Why? Whats wrong with the crossover? Simply saying buy a kit is no use in helping me learn how to do this, i dont want to to buy a kit because ive already bought and built these speakers. Also if i wanted to 'just buy a kit' id save myself all of the hassle and just buy a ready made off the shelf speaker.
With a kit you would have long ago had speakers that you could listen to and enjoy. And you wouldn't be at "your wits end" as you seem to be now.
Designing your own crossovers is not easy. It requires an in-depth understanding of filters and drivers. Not something that you can pick up easily from reading a few posts on the Internet. Or just do by plugging a few values into a software program. Some very nice people here have to tried to help you, but that's not the same as knowing what to do yourself.
The cost for outstanding DIY kits by top designers is typically about 1/10 the cost of comparable ready made commercial products.
Designing your own crossovers is not easy. It requires an in-depth understanding of filters and drivers. Not something that you can pick up easily from reading a few posts on the Internet. Or just do by plugging a few values into a software program. Some very nice people here have to tried to help you, but that's not the same as knowing what to do yourself.
The cost for outstanding DIY kits by top designers is typically about 1/10 the cost of comparable ready made commercial products.
Last edited:
I understand what your saying, but i enjoy making things myself, from start to finish, theres no fun or pride in building someone elses design, no matter how good it is. My speakers are working as they are, ive listened to them for months now and they sound great, better than other shop bought speakers ive heard, that was the reason i used full range drivers, to give me time to figure out the crossover. My comment about being at my witt's end wasnt about the build, it was about trying to do this crossover without constructive criticism. If i dont know specifically which part of the crossover is wrong and WHY then i cant learn to do it better. I appreciate the help ive received so far, but as you said theres a lot to making crossovers, and not having a one on one teacher is a massive set back, but i wont give up, i will get the hang of this, if it takes me £300 in crossover parts and hours of reading, i will get to the point where xovers are easy for me. As for now i just need to know if the above crossover will work or if it wont, if not ill re do it untill i make one that will.
I dont mean to be a pain by asking questions, but no expert started out knowing everything, everyone has to start somewhere
I dont mean to be a pain by asking questions, but no expert started out knowing everything, everyone has to start somewhere
You’re clearly struggling, because you don’t have the experience necessary to create your own crossover. And although you are getting some help from some very nice people here it does not appear to be enough.
I previously suggested that at your level you should read “Speaker Building 201” by Ray Alden. It is a perfect starting book and would give you a basic understanding of crossover design. And even that may not be enough. You should probably follow that book with “Loudspeaker Design Cookbook Book” by Vance Dickason.
But then you replied that “i may read it at a later date when im more advanced.” The problem is you have it backwards. It’s not possible to be more advanced if you don’t first understand the basics.
I previously suggested that at your level you should read “Speaker Building 201” by Ray Alden. It is a perfect starting book and would give you a basic understanding of crossover design. And even that may not be enough. You should probably follow that book with “Loudspeaker Design Cookbook Book” by Vance Dickason.
But then you replied that “i may read it at a later date when im more advanced.” The problem is you have it backwards. It’s not possible to be more advanced if you don’t first understand the basics.
It's fairly easy to assess phase from the phase plots. Why don't you try it once, for a change?
I think you are pretty much done here:
All looks OK to me, though you might need a bit more tweeter attenuation in reality, since the fullrangers are only around 85dB. Phase must be OK with a 6dB gain at crossover. That second coil on the bass filter is usually bypassed with about 8 ohms. In practice you use preferred values like 2.2uF and 3.3uF. Cheaper.
All looks OK to me, though you might need a bit more tweeter attenuation in reality, since the fullrangers are only around 85dB. Phase must be OK with a 6dB gain at crossover. That second coil on the bass filter is usually bypassed with about 8 ohms. In practice you use preferred values like 2.2uF and 3.3uF. Cheaper.
I think you have learned a lot and have arrived at a nice workable crossover. You like how it sounds and it measures well. A lot of folks who have deep crossover knowledge and experience could have come up with something very similar much quicker. An expert could also probably tweak it it be flatter or perhaps use fewer or more "optimum" parts. I personally have designed only a couple of speakers that have as nice a reverse null as your design. I'm, at best, fair at crossover design and sitll have a lot to learn, but to be able to design and build a nice, if not great, sounding speaker is quite an accomplishment, IMHO.
@classicalfan I did listen to your advice, i have both of those books now, and the Floyd toole one, i spent £100 just on books last week lol. I have a 4 month old son though that takes up a hell of a lot of my time plus doing 50 hour weeks at work, so getting chance to sit down and read them all is a challenge. I started on the loudspeaker design cookbook, and have read about a quarter of it, its a good book, just the language used to describe things isnt explained, you need a speaker dictionary just to know what the hell hes on about half the time. Theres no section that first explains what group delay is, what minimum phase is, what the time window is etc, etc so i spend as much time Googleing what they are as reading the book.
Because my days are so full at the minute i post on here to try to get quick answers to the simple questions, and to just see if im going in the right direction with the above design, i really do appreciate everyones help
Because my days are so full at the minute i post on here to try to get quick answers to the simple questions, and to just see if im going in the right direction with the above design, i really do appreciate everyones help
Last edited:
Sytem7 thank you for all of your help, it is appreciated, once ive bought and received the componants and put the crossover together, ill post a picture of the finished speaker and measured response that i get from it, hopefully all is well, thank you again
@Drjay thank you, yeah i definately took the hard road at making this crossover and i would still be fumbling around if not for the people on this site, hopefully it sounds really nice once finished
I don't think you'll go far wrong.
I've been doing crossovers and filters for audio and radio for 45 years, so have a vague hold on what we try to do:
Your effort looks OK:
My own hobby efforts get to the same place:
But until you plug them in, all is uncertain.
Excellent Logitech Z200 speakers.
TBH I wonder why we bother? These babies cost me £35. All the excellence of twin drivers. And no effort at all. 😀
I've been doing crossovers and filters for audio and radio for 45 years, so have a vague hold on what we try to do:
Your effort looks OK:
My own hobby efforts get to the same place:
But until you plug them in, all is uncertain.
Excellent Logitech Z200 speakers.
TBH I wonder why we bother? These babies cost me £35. All the excellence of twin drivers. And no effort at all. 😀
Yeah its the reason i dont like to design a crossover without in box measurements, the first time i did that they were way off once built due to my inexperience, so now i have £150 worth of crossover parts that i cant use lol theyre for future use now. But like i said hopefully these go in and everything works fine, i trust your opinion on it so i feel a little more at ease about how its going to go.
My mate at work keeps telling me to just go buy some speakers instead, and ive done that in the past, its effortless but also you lose the fun and the pride from building your own when you do that, my parents now have a pair of the speakers i posted earlier made from brass that no one else in the world has, thats what i enjoy about it tbh. I just hope one day i have even half of the knowledge that you and other people have on this site.
Would you mind if i pick your brain on other future projects when i come to building them? Its fine if your too busy or just dont want to lol not everyone wants to give up time for that so i would understand
My mate at work keeps telling me to just go buy some speakers instead, and ive done that in the past, its effortless but also you lose the fun and the pride from building your own when you do that, my parents now have a pair of the speakers i posted earlier made from brass that no one else in the world has, thats what i enjoy about it tbh. I just hope one day i have even half of the knowledge that you and other people have on this site.
Would you mind if i pick your brain on other future projects when i come to building them? Its fine if your too busy or just dont want to lol not everyone wants to give up time for that so i would understand
I would suggest reading "Speaker Building 201" first. It is simpler than the "Loudspeaker Design Cookbook". And you don't have to read the whole the thing. The beginning chapters contain most of the basic information.
