The DBR has an internal volume of 37L's. Would the 12p work in a simple 40-50L bass reflex rear ported enclosure?
Scottmoose's reply:
Yes, but you'd need about 5 1/2ohms series R to get the alignment into shape, which would rather negate the point, and won't help power-handling in general
Scottmoose, just making sure I asked the right question. Forget the double bass reflex, can the 12p work in a 40-50L ported enclosure? If not what would be the closest I can get to my ideal? The Simple Reflex is 16L and the Pensil is 67L. I'm sure something in between would work?
Thanks
Scottmoose's reply:
Yes, but you'd need about 5 1/2ohms series R to get the alignment into shape, which would rather negate the point, and won't help power-handling in general
Scottmoose, just making sure I asked the right question. Forget the double bass reflex, can the 12p work in a 40-50L ported enclosure? If not what would be the closest I can get to my ideal? The Simple Reflex is 16L and the Pensil is 67L. I'm sure something in between would work?
Thanks
The Open Source Monkey Box's were also designed to be low watt happy and also stand mounters. Don't know if the finished design turned out to meet the low watts criteria but its worth a look if you haven't already.
Open Source Monkey Box
I've often thought the woofer from that project combined with something like the 10P would make a nice simplified Monkey Box WAW.
No. Not without adding about 5 1/2ohms series resistance.
Why are you sure? 😉
Humour aside, the Pensil is a hybrid quarter-wave variation rather than a regular vented box so a slightly different set of conditions come into play. The 16 litre box is about as large as you can get in terms of a regular vented box alignment with the 12P without assuming some help from the amplifier (an unknown as you haven't said what the output impedance is) or other artificial means, and preserving a decent alignment. I have a couple of more compact ML quarter-wave floorstanders on the drawing board, but the plans are commercial products rather than DIY offerings, and since I'm not on this forum to sell things (not that I take anything, it goes to Dave, which is only fair as he does the CAD drawing, hosts the site etc.), I'll say no more on that subject.
Size & money usually. 😉 The larger Pi speakers should do -perhaps not the most refined in absolute terms, but good for the type & money. The Elsinore should be OK too. Otherwise -vintage Altec or GPA time. 😉
I do have a couple of designs on the drawing board that should serve reasonably for things like this, & I suppose I should kick them up the priority list, but as noted, I'm not here to flog things so I always advise looking elsewhere first.
I have been reading alot of favorable reviews on the Alpair 12p and low wattage tube amps.I believe using a proven design will be my best approach for this project.
Designs that I have researched are:
1) The Simple Reflex 12.2=16 L
2) Mar-Ken 12p=14 L
3) Fonken and its variants =? L
I believe the Fonken are paid plans but that will not deter me from getting if they are the best option. An Email has been sent to Dave.
In your opinion what is the best enclosure for this driver? I'm curious about the Fonkens design since they look about the size of standmounts that I would like to build and they are SET amp friendly.
Designs that I have researched are:
1) The Simple Reflex 12.2=16 L
2) Mar-Ken 12p=14 L
3) Fonken and its variants =? L
I believe the Fonken are paid plans but that will not deter me from getting if they are the best option. An Email has been sent to Dave.
In your opinion what is the best enclosure for this driver? I'm curious about the Fonkens design since they look about the size of standmounts that I would like to build and they are SET amp friendly.
If you're going to put the 12p in a small vented box, you'll need woofer support, plain and simple. In a Super Pensil, the 12p will play nicely with 5 watts, but won't rock, unless your room is small.
jeff
jeff
I understand the bass limitations of the 12p and standmounts. Like I said in a previous post, I have Klipsch Forte ll that do rock very well, so not worried about the lack of bass. The same was said about the Pensil10p's bass but once built, I found the bass satisfying.
I would assume that if the Fonkens are bigger they might have better bass than the other 2 designs. I don't know, hence my question. Would someone know what the internal volume of the Fonken variants be?
I would assume that if the Fonkens are bigger they might have better bass than the other 2 designs. I don't know, hence my question. Would someone know what the internal volume of the Fonken variants be?
No, I don't think you do.
Completely different speaker.
Completely different speaker.
Fonkens are for Fostex drivers, not Mark Audio.
jeff
I'm having trouble following now.
Your original post was that you wanted a speaker that would be better for rock, which would be hard to do with a fullrange driver and only 6w as previously noted.
Now, you have a set of Klipsch to listen for rock.
And you don't mind the limited bass and range of the fullrange and still keep it at 6w.
The 12p, being a bit bigger will not magically sound more punchy and extended in a vented small box, compared to the 10 in Pensils! Quite the contrary.
So, if your aim was to build small speakers for the kitchen, then I think that would work, but it does not agree with your goals in the original message.... unless I missed a post somewhere along the way stating you changed your goals.
I think I need to clarify a few things since I might have caused some confusion.
I have two systems, my main system with the Klipsch Forte ll's and my secondary system with the Pensil 10p. I listen to many types of music, rock being my preferred type. The Forte ll's do rock well, the Pensil's not as well.
I will be keeping both sets but would like to build a third set to listen to everything but the most complex music in my main system.
I ordered a set of Mark Audio Alpair 12p drivers yesterday and will be building either a, simplex reflex, Classic Golden Ratio Mar-ken 12p or a variant of the Mar-ken 12p from the paid plans from Planet 10 which is my preferred option. I emailed Dave to purchase these plans and awaiting his reply.
I hope this clarifies a few ambiguities on my part and can't wait to get the project going.
I have two systems, my main system with the Klipsch Forte ll's and my secondary system with the Pensil 10p. I listen to many types of music, rock being my preferred type. The Forte ll's do rock well, the Pensil's not as well.
I will be keeping both sets but would like to build a third set to listen to everything but the most complex music in my main system.
I ordered a set of Mark Audio Alpair 12p drivers yesterday and will be building either a, simplex reflex, Classic Golden Ratio Mar-ken 12p or a variant of the Mar-ken 12p from the paid plans from Planet 10 which is my preferred option. I emailed Dave to purchase these plans and awaiting his reply.
I hope this clarifies a few ambiguities on my part and can't wait to get the project going.
It is certainly popular, but suffers from the weak top of the 10F.
And 82 dB. That is punishing.
What doe the impedance look like?
dave
No. Th elargest reflex i will put A12p in is 17 litres. A12pw, 35 litres.
2 completely different principles of operation. Something inbetween would not be a BR.
dave
Mar-Ken12p come in 17 litre and 13 litre. The free plan is 13 litre.
A Fonken is a miniOnken for a Fostex. A Mar-Ken is a miniOnken for Mark Audio.
dave
I would say YMMV there... depends on taste; for a little bit more HF presence (and lower price point) there is the Visaton B80 which I am using in my build (never tried the Scan 10F). There are published XO adjustments for a few other drivers too. I did an XO simulation for the Fountek FE85 and that showed good results too. I am pretty sure that one of the MA drivers can be used as a mid-tweet if somebody wants to do that.
I should have an impedance sweep somewhere... or I will need to test with DATs again. These speakers are heavy, so don't expect anytime soon.
My 2 way speakers have a 3/4" Hiquphon tweeter that has a top end that none of the FR drivers I tried can match.
Hi Dave,
Please check your email. I sent you an email requesting the paid plan set for the Mar-Ken 12p.
Please check your email. I sent you an email requesting the paid plan set for the Mar-Ken 12p.
You think they can't do complex music? Maybe at high volume the bass can be lacking, easily fixed with a (sub)woofer. I'm a big Zappa fan, complex enough for you? 😉 and since getting my Eikonas I've heard things in his mixes I haven't heard before. 😎
The Simple Reflex 16L Alpair 12p Standmount looks very interesting and I might just go with it.
I have read on DIY that the optimal size for the Alpair 12p is 16-20L. Has anybody built the 20L? Is there is big difference with the 16L?
I also saw on Lautsprechershop.de a 30 L version. Would this be a better standmount?
The Pensil is not a standmount but a 52 L floorstander that gets a lot of praise. So is there really an "optimal" size box? So what if you put the 12p in a 40 L box will that work? I guess a lot is trial and error.
I have read on DIY that the optimal size for the Alpair 12p is 16-20L. Has anybody built the 20L? Is there is big difference with the 16L?
I also saw on Lautsprechershop.de a 30 L version. Would this be a better standmount?
The Pensil is not a standmount but a 52 L floorstander that gets a lot of praise. So is there really an "optimal" size box? So what if you put the 12p in a 40 L box will that work? I guess a lot is trial and error.