Hi Machismo
It sounds as if you either measuered the 12NTLW3500 yourself or that you got measurements form somewhere. Would you mind to share them ?
Regards
Charles
It sounds as if you either measuered the 12NTLW3500 yourself or that you got measurements form somewhere. Would you mind to share them ?
Regards
Charles
The Oberton seems interesting as the specs seem to be in the ballpark, so I might buy one for testing and measurement, unless something else comes up.
The second one, Nero woofer is clearly designed for higher frequency band, so that one I will pass.
Speaker enclosures are already built and houses several 12" and also I've found that 12" is pretty optimal for me. My previous experience with smaller and bigger drives always seemed to left something to wish for.
Thanks for the list, it's an awful lot of drivers. However, since I do already own the TD12X, the only purpose of my quest now is logically to look for something even better. I could buy all of those drivers, but I think it's unlikely that most actually would measure any lower distortion than AE in the frequency area I specified. Unless of course someone has already compared and can verify that they will. So in my case, even a very good driver does not serve me now, it really would need to be something exceptional. Makes sense, huh?
Wom250_vHE | .Kartesian
Waiting for updated specs on this. Maybe they'll expand the line in the future.
Waiting for updated specs on this. Maybe they'll expand the line in the future.
List for Jon the OP, not for Machismo
I made up the list, but I made it for for Jon Bocani (OP) who is not restricted to use any of the drivers he already owns... He asked for new suggestions, hence the list!
Cheers
Alex.
I made up the list, but I made it for for Jon Bocani (OP) who is not restricted to use any of the drivers he already owns... He asked for new suggestions, hence the list!
Cheers
Alex.
Hi. Yeah gladly, I still have them.
First I equalized the responses be the same level so it would be possible to accurately compare the distortion figures. So remember to not to look at the frequency response itself, as it's not natural, just at the distortion charts.
However I will put it here anyway just for reference, to show that I did indeed equalize the levels before the measurements:
Despite my corrections the Beyma (green line) was still left a little bit low on the sub 60 hz region, but does not matter, you can add a bit distortion on the Beyma down there on your mind. Otherwise, everything is really spot on. Measurements were done on a large sealed enclosure with lots of filling @1 meter distance and all on the same evening.
Acoustic Elegance TD12M
Acoustic Elegance TD12X
Eighteensound 12NTLW3500
Beyma 10NC700ND
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Thanks !
It is interesting that k3 seems to be dominating on all three 12" drivers around 200 Hz. But nice to see how the higher order harmonics are very low on the AEs.
Regards
Charles
It is interesting that k3 seems to be dominating on all three 12" drivers around 200 Hz. But nice to see how the higher order harmonics are very low on the AEs.
Regards
Charles
Yes indeed the 3rd order harmonics are much lower on the AE. And it's not something that just shows only on the measurement, I noticed already before that AE is a bit more clean and pleasant to listen compared to others. However, these are all good drivers.
It seems that there are almost no other high end drivers in this category. So just in case, I now ordered the Oberton 12NSW600, 8 ohm
12NSW600
and the BMS 12N630, 8 ohm
http://www.bmsspeakers.com/fileadmin/bms-data/product_data_2014/bms_12n630_t_data_2014-07.pdf
The BMS goes quite low and is not a mid bass anymore, but it will be interesting to see how it compares to others.
It seems that there are almost no other high end drivers in this category. So just in case, I now ordered the Oberton 12NSW600, 8 ohm
12NSW600
and the BMS 12N630, 8 ohm
http://www.bmsspeakers.com/fileadmin/bms-data/product_data_2014/bms_12n630_t_data_2014-07.pdf
The BMS goes quite low and is not a mid bass anymore, but it will be interesting to see how it compares to others.
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I still expect to AE to be the best for home use than these two but I think they'll be a close second. Better than the other prosound drivers for that range.
Looking forward to it. Thanks.
Looking forward to it. Thanks.
The 12” drivers arrived and at first, I just listened to them for some time and also gave some excursion movement, if they happen to require. The Oberton 12NSW600 (8 ohm) felt like it might need it, the suspension was very stiff at first, which changed after some time for the better. In that way, it was different from other drivers I have bought in recent years, most of them were quite ready for playing immediately.
When I took the Oberton out of the box, the materials looked like it was made in the 90s. In reality, it's a new design and sounded actually very good, I was pleasantly surprised.
The BMS 12N630 (8 ohm) sounded a bit different, it didn’t quite have the same sharpness in the mid bass punch, so when previously just looking at the parameters I was right, it’s half a woofer, half a subwoofer design, but just to be clear, it’s still not a 100% subwoofer. Therefore, the BMS is not going to be the optimum for my project no matter what the distortion levels, but in some other application it will work fine.
Despite the BMS being the most light in weight and having the smallest actual cone diameter (12cm), compared to Obertons 13cm and TD12X 14cm, the BMS was the only tested woofer that didn’t actually fit in to the driver hole of my regular enclosure because of quite a large basket.
So, I had to bring another enclosure of mine and enlarge the hole a bit to get it installed. I then used only that enclosure to measure the drivers to keep things even.
Couple of pictures:
When I took the Oberton out of the box, the materials looked like it was made in the 90s. In reality, it's a new design and sounded actually very good, I was pleasantly surprised.
The BMS 12N630 (8 ohm) sounded a bit different, it didn’t quite have the same sharpness in the mid bass punch, so when previously just looking at the parameters I was right, it’s half a woofer, half a subwoofer design, but just to be clear, it’s still not a 100% subwoofer. Therefore, the BMS is not going to be the optimum for my project no matter what the distortion levels, but in some other application it will work fine.
Despite the BMS being the most light in weight and having the smallest actual cone diameter (12cm), compared to Obertons 13cm and TD12X 14cm, the BMS was the only tested woofer that didn’t actually fit in to the driver hole of my regular enclosure because of quite a large basket.
So, I had to bring another enclosure of mine and enlarge the hole a bit to get it installed. I then used only that enclosure to measure the drivers to keep things even.
Couple of pictures:
Thanks for the report. Been looking for comparisons between these brands for awhile.
Does the AE still win for your application?
Does the AE still win for your application?
Beyma 12P80ND-V2 soft diaphragm. not ribbed. Beyma produced a short period of time this version after discontinuing V1 version. it had a soft diaphragm and then without changing the model number diaphragm changed to a ribbed one. I have all three versions and the soft V2 sounds the best.
Celestion tf1225e! Great driver, very flat response. I use it in a 2 way econowave style speaker where i drop off at 60hz
The BMS 12N630 is a subwoofer with not too high xmax. Really it's not a kicking midbass driver with the 127g moving mass.
The claimed sensitivity is a bit optimistic imo.
Check for example the Faital Pro 12FH520, low mms, relative high Fs, low Qes/Qts, low mechanical resistance, efficient (almost 3%), shorting ring, curved cone. Good for midbass.
FaitalPRO | LF Loudspeakers | 12FH520 (8Ω)
The claimed sensitivity is a bit optimistic imo.
Check for example the Faital Pro 12FH520, low mms, relative high Fs, low Qes/Qts, low mechanical resistance, efficient (almost 3%), shorting ring, curved cone. Good for midbass.
FaitalPRO | LF Loudspeakers | 12FH520 (8Ω)
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The 12NSW600 is interesting because it has 15mm xmax if you use the same method as Faital Pro, but comes in at a relatively light 85g mms.
Only similar drivers are the BMS 12S305 and AE TDX line (and Kartesian when available).
The AE is 55g but uses a 2" coil rather than the 3" used on the others. Not a problem for home use but it won't be as rugged as the 3" sandwich coils.
Only similar drivers are the BMS 12S305 and AE TDX line (and Kartesian when available).
The AE is 55g but uses a 2" coil rather than the 3" used on the others. Not a problem for home use but it won't be as rugged as the 3" sandwich coils.
The 12NSW600 is also a subwoofer, this is also stated on the factory data sheet and the NSW acronym means Neodymium SubWoofer. And don't forget that long-coil large xmax is just a ballast and only advantageus for low-bass, where big excursion requiered, hence not a real midbass, but maybe it can be good for that as well.
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