I'm redoing my speakers entirely and i already know all drivers i'll used except for the midbass (+/- 90hz to 800hz) to fit with 12w6v3, AC-1.6 and 210-10D..
so far, i'm looking for that model:
Volt Loudspeakers | RV3153 (12″)
looks good on paper, but maybe someone here had the chance to try it ?
so far, i'm looking for that model:
Volt Loudspeakers | RV3153 (12″)
looks good on paper, but maybe someone here had the chance to try it ?
Magnum-12 DIY Sound Group
No experience with it.
I think a number of high output midbasses will do well in this range. B&C'S 12PE32 looks to be in a similar vein to your midrange driver in that it's a fairly light massed very efficient driver.
No experience with it.
I think a number of high output midbasses will do well in this range. B&C'S 12PE32 looks to be in a similar vein to your midrange driver in that it's a fairly light massed very efficient driver.
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Difficult question... 
sealed ?
Active ?
Efficienty targett ?
For sleeping the night those days, I count the 12" ...
I have just some criteria thanks to the good helps of experienced designers here :
High Xmax to allow EQ, bafle step compensation if you plane it
Even Higher Xmax if a "little" Linkwitz transform is needed in the low end :>90 Hz < ?
Lower Fs possible to allow to cross at 1 or 2 octave above if sealed...
Something like this !
Add : stiff cone for pistonic behavior and EQ "resistance" and good BL as this range needs to be lively and light...
Amps already choosed ? even more difficult choice !
; Easier if you construct the room around it !
And the winner is....
(choose your trade offs !)
sealed ?
Active ?
Efficienty targett ?
For sleeping the night those days, I count the 12" ...
I have just some criteria thanks to the good helps of experienced designers here :
High Xmax to allow EQ, bafle step compensation if you plane it
Even Higher Xmax if a "little" Linkwitz transform is needed in the low end :>90 Hz < ?
Lower Fs possible to allow to cross at 1 or 2 octave above if sealed...
Something like this !
Add : stiff cone for pistonic behavior and EQ "resistance" and good BL as this range needs to be lively and light...
Amps already choosed ? even more difficult choice !
; Easier if you construct the room around it !And the winner is....
(choose your trade offs !)
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Difficult question...
sealed ?
Active ?
Efficienty targett ?
For sleeping the night those days, I count the 12" ...
I have just some criteria thanks to the good helps of experienced designers here :
High Xmax to allow EQ, bafle step compensation if you plane it
Even Higher Xmax if a "little" Linkwitz transform is needed in the low end :>90 Hz < ?
Lower Fs possible to allow to cross at 1 or 2 octave above if sealed...
Something like this !
Add : stiff cone and good BL as this range needs to be lively and light...
Amps already choosed ? even more difficult choice !
Sealed + Active + EQ'd
i might be able to cross @ 120hz 48db/oct+ but i'd like it to produce some decent 90hz+ in case the 12w6v3 are not as good as planned.
Some here would say as you're in the North American aera : some AE drivers ?!
(very low Qts in sealed = more EQ or less efficienty if down-EQ -no Linkwitz transform- ) ?
Behavior of the room with all of that ? Measuring the room with a steep tone signal at 90 dB spl ?
If no WAFFPF: WAF foot print factor : would look at Volvotreter and Inlowsud mid-bass straight horns !
(very low Qts in sealed = more EQ or less efficienty if down-EQ -no Linkwitz transform- ) ?
Behavior of the room with all of that ? Measuring the room with a steep tone signal at 90 dB spl ?
If no WAFFPF: WAF foot print factor : would look at Volvotreter and Inlowsud mid-bass straight horns !
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Well, 0.16 is very low...
wouldn't want to boost +15db in the 90-150hz because the driver can't be in sealed enclosure
Yeah. 100db mid, 100db midbass, 85db sub? The sub will be pumping while the midbass is being tickled.
already have 113db/1w tweeters matched with 83db/1w subwoofers and it's not a problem at all, for various reasons. For starters: i'm ACTIVE.
Also, the sensitivity has little to do in real-world in-room application when it concerns first 2 octaves.
I seriously cannot complain about my 10w7's
http://mediacdn.jlaudio.com/media/mfg/9013/media_document/live_1/10W7AE_MAN.pdf?1439257762
and i'll change only to try the 12w6v3... out of curiosity!
I will not start a new topic as this already exists. I am looking for a 8 ohm 12" woofer/partial mid bass for the 50-200 hz area. So not a subwoofer driver and only the lowest possible distortion. This of course usually means much higher price, which is not a problem.
I already own and have used Acoustic Elegance TD12M and TD12X, Apollo versions:
Acoustic Elegance TD12M high efficiency bass/midbass driver
Acoustic Elegance TD12X - Sealed or Vented Box Applications
also 18sound 12NTLW3500:
Eighteen Sound - Professional loudspeakers
and older model from them, Eighteen Sound 12NLW9300:
Eighteen Sound - Professional loudspeakers
Also for comparison, I aquired one of the drivers that scored well in this comparison of the 10" woofers, Beyma 10NC700nd:
War of the 10" monster midbasses
https://www.beyma.com/en/products/c/low-mid-frequency/110MC70ND8/loudspeaker-10mc700nd-8-oh/
So, out of this bunch the lowest distortion and the nicest sound too is TD12X.
TD12M was close but littlebit higher distortion around 50-150hz and also it has less excursion. TD12X had also a bit more flat frequency response than TD12M on the f. area I am looking for.
If I had needed robustness and a super high power handling, this relatively new model from 18sound, 12NTLW3500 would have been the choice since it sounds quite good and has very low 2nd order distortion, but 3rd order is much higher than Acoustic Elegance. The older model which is a bit similar in some ways, the 12NLW9300, sounded maybe not so sharp in comparison, but of course 12NTLW3500 is their latest flagship of 12" drivers and more expensive too.
Despite having reasonably low distortion, Beyma 10NC700nd was not capable of delivering the energy I needed around 50 hz, so it was simply too small for me and small excursion too. Since then I have actually used it as a high power handling mid range driver with better success.
So what should I buy next, is there something on the market that would actually beat AE speakers? TD12 models have been around for years but still at the lead or what?
I already own and have used Acoustic Elegance TD12M and TD12X, Apollo versions:
Acoustic Elegance TD12M high efficiency bass/midbass driver
Acoustic Elegance TD12X - Sealed or Vented Box Applications
also 18sound 12NTLW3500:
Eighteen Sound - Professional loudspeakers
and older model from them, Eighteen Sound 12NLW9300:
Eighteen Sound - Professional loudspeakers
Also for comparison, I aquired one of the drivers that scored well in this comparison of the 10" woofers, Beyma 10NC700nd:
War of the 10" monster midbasses
https://www.beyma.com/en/products/c/low-mid-frequency/110MC70ND8/loudspeaker-10mc700nd-8-oh/
So, out of this bunch the lowest distortion and the nicest sound too is TD12X.
TD12M was close but littlebit higher distortion around 50-150hz and also it has less excursion. TD12X had also a bit more flat frequency response than TD12M on the f. area I am looking for.
If I had needed robustness and a super high power handling, this relatively new model from 18sound, 12NTLW3500 would have been the choice since it sounds quite good and has very low 2nd order distortion, but 3rd order is much higher than Acoustic Elegance. The older model which is a bit similar in some ways, the 12NLW9300, sounded maybe not so sharp in comparison, but of course 12NTLW3500 is their latest flagship of 12" drivers and more expensive too.
Despite having reasonably low distortion, Beyma 10NC700nd was not capable of delivering the energy I needed around 50 hz, so it was simply too small for me and small excursion too. Since then I have actually used it as a high power handling mid range driver with better success.
So what should I buy next, is there something on the market that would actually beat AE speakers? TD12 models have been around for years but still at the lead or what?
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Thanks for the report. The only other drivers I can think that might compete come from BMS and Kartesian. Very few motors can compete with AE for hi-fi as they use so much copper and small voice-coils.
Maybe AudioTechnology can go hand to hand with AE as well.
I really like the BMS 15N850 I have. A good mix between prosound and hi-fi.
Maybe AudioTechnology can go hand to hand with AE as well.
I really like the BMS 15N850 I have. A good mix between prosound and hi-fi.
12NSW600
This driver has always looked interesting as well. Big xmax numbers and deep suspension for a prosound 12". Still doesn't have the super low inductance AE has.
SB Audience :: NERO-12MWN400D
This one doesn't have huge xmax but inductance is low for a 3" voicecoil.
You might want to move up in cone area if you can't get enough from a 12".
This driver has always looked interesting as well. Big xmax numbers and deep suspension for a prosound 12". Still doesn't have the super low inductance AE has.
SB Audience :: NERO-12MWN400D
This one doesn't have huge xmax but inductance is low for a 3" voicecoil.
You might want to move up in cone area if you can't get enough from a 12".
Best 12 and 15 inch low mid drivers in small sealed box...
I can highly recommend both these drivers:
12 inch Beyma 12P80 Fe V2 (superb in just 13 litres sealed, sim attached) https://www.beyma.com/speakers/Fich...rs-data-sheet-low-mid-frequency-12P80FeV2.pdf
If you have a wide enough baffle to accommodate a 15 inch, the only thing better is the awesome PD 158: http://www.precision-devices.com/file-downloads/PD158-DATASHEET-310114.pdf
The attached sim shows the PD 158 in 19 litres sealed box, plus 4 other 15 inch drivers. I have used all the drivers in the sim and my thoughts are as follows:
(1) PD 158 - Sublime 80Hz to 600 Hz, open, natural and free from power compression or muddy male vocals... Upright bass, cello and left hand piano make you cry with joy on appropriate material.. Unsurpassed overall.
(2) Beyma 15 P80 Fe gets 75% of the low midrange magic of the PD 158 but pulls out a slight lead in performance if you need it to go below 80Hz... It can be used all the way to 25Hz with Eq and sounds great.
(3) Beyma SM 115K - Not recomended above 150 Hz but superb over the 20 Hz to 120Hz band... Really lovely natural articulate even below 50 Hz and slam with kick drum and synth, best value in subs.
(4) RCF MB15N401 - Very similar to Beyma 15 P80 Fe, Beyma is better value in UK. So close in sound quality I cant separate them in blind tests... The RCF needs more Eq to reach 30 Hz but can do it in half the cabinet volume... Might be handy in some set ups.
(5) PD 1550 Great over the 20 Hz to 300 Hz band, very similar below 100Hz to the Beyma SM115K, but the PD 1550 can go higher... Maintains superb male vocals with no chesty/nasal muddy sound. Superb all round driver if you have the space a for 51 litre cabinet and can afford the price... Not cheap!
Hope this helps?
Cheers
A.
I can highly recommend both these drivers:
12 inch Beyma 12P80 Fe V2 (superb in just 13 litres sealed, sim attached) https://www.beyma.com/speakers/Fich...rs-data-sheet-low-mid-frequency-12P80FeV2.pdf
If you have a wide enough baffle to accommodate a 15 inch, the only thing better is the awesome PD 158: http://www.precision-devices.com/file-downloads/PD158-DATASHEET-310114.pdf
The attached sim shows the PD 158 in 19 litres sealed box, plus 4 other 15 inch drivers. I have used all the drivers in the sim and my thoughts are as follows:
(1) PD 158 - Sublime 80Hz to 600 Hz, open, natural and free from power compression or muddy male vocals... Upright bass, cello and left hand piano make you cry with joy on appropriate material.. Unsurpassed overall.
(2) Beyma 15 P80 Fe gets 75% of the low midrange magic of the PD 158 but pulls out a slight lead in performance if you need it to go below 80Hz... It can be used all the way to 25Hz with Eq and sounds great.
(3) Beyma SM 115K - Not recomended above 150 Hz but superb over the 20 Hz to 120Hz band... Really lovely natural articulate even below 50 Hz and slam with kick drum and synth, best value in subs.
(4) RCF MB15N401 - Very similar to Beyma 15 P80 Fe, Beyma is better value in UK. So close in sound quality I cant separate them in blind tests... The RCF needs more Eq to reach 30 Hz but can do it in half the cabinet volume... Might be handy in some set ups.
(5) PD 1550 Great over the 20 Hz to 300 Hz band, very similar below 100Hz to the Beyma SM115K, but the PD 1550 can go higher... Maintains superb male vocals with no chesty/nasal muddy sound. Superb all round driver if you have the space a for 51 litre cabinet and can afford the price... Not cheap!
Hope this helps?
Cheers
A.
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