The Black Hole......

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#5,622
scott wurcer said:
Do you really think the fact that people in power that can affect the health and well being of all of us believe in shape shifting aliens is more important than this DAC sound stuff?
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Scott,
Of course not. I was remarking on the points made in the video you linked to. I know it sounds inspiring to want to teach everyone science. But, the idea is flawed. Even those well trained in science can have emotional, intuitive, conspiracy theory type thinking. It happens despite the extensive training in science. They are not any more rational than anyone else outside of their area of expertise. They are no better than average at judging other people. Maybe worse, since highly intelligent people are able to think up long lists of all the reasons why they are right, and they can do it even when they are wrong.

Bottom line for me, understanding science is good thing, I agree. But it can't be the whole story about rationality. There is too much evidence to the contrary.
 
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#5,624
Markw4 said:
Scott,
Of course not. I was remarking on the points made in the video you linked to. I know it sounds inspiring to want to teach everyone science. But, the idea is flawed. Even those well trained in science can have emotional, intuitive, conspiracy theory type thinking. It happens despite the extensive training in science. They are not any more rational than anyone else outside of their area of expertise. They are no better than average at judging other people. Maybe worse, since highly intelligent people are able to think up long lists of all the reasons why they are right, and they can do it even when they are wrong.

Bottom line for me, understanding science is good thing, I agree. But it can't be the whole story about rationality. There is too much evidence to the contrary.
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This is some BS. The fact that there are exceptions to a rule does not mean it can't be generally correct.

Mark, you seem like a decent person and I have no doubt we would get along if we ever met, but IMO you would do well to take a step back and reconsider. I don't know how to say this without making it seem like a very personal attack, but your logic here is no different than I see daily from anti-vaxxers and the like.
 
#5,625
Chris,
Its hard for me to understand how you could misread me so badly.

Please consider that nurses are very much trained in medical science, they are taught the scientifically 'proven' benefits of vaccination. Yet, in some parts of the country astounding numbers of medical professionals are refusing COVID vaccinations. For someone trained in medical science, is that rational thinking or not?

I can tell you its not rational. The risks of vaccination are not more than the risks associated with getting the disease.

Again, the Cognitive Psychology literature is full of research showing humans are not fully rational, and science education is not a proven solution for that disrationality.
 
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#5,627
Yep, nurses are not trained in medical science, they are trained in patient care. They are not doctors, and they are especially not immunologists.

No one said that scientists are perfectly rational, this is just another straw man.
 
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#5,629
chris719 said:
Yep, nurses are not trained in medical science, they are trained in patient care.
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Same could be said for an MD degree.

Back to the subject, the coursework required for nursing is not without science: Nursing Science, B.S. < University of California Irvine

I see some of chemistry, physiology, anatomy, microbiology, biostatistics, psychology, etc.

Looks like preparation for patient care includes the necessary supporting science classes. In general terms, its not so unlike what engineers are expected to go through, given the types of science engineers are likely to need to know.

Except of course, nurses should be more aware of their own human biases given all the psychology unit requirements. Does it help them to be more rational about medicine than engineers are? Likely it does.

Nonetheless, they still are unable to be rational about vaccines. Hence, my original point.
 
#5,631
Markw4 said:
Yet, in some parts of the country astounding numbers of medical professionals are refusing COVID vaccinations.
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Vey bad example, medical professionals are used to the usual tedious years of vetting for any vaccine. Considering the smattering of reports of negative reactions it would be a rational decision for a young medical professional with no health issues to forgo vaccination at this time. A better test would be how many of them would refuse a tetanus booster, hepatitis vaccination, or prophylactic malaria treatment when traveling to Africa, China, or India.

BTW this is a big problem these days for pediatricians, potential patients simply say if you have any patients that refuse vaccination I will look for another doctor.
 
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#5,632
My experiences recently have shown me that there is a surprising lack of rational analysis in many medical personnel..
A friend pointed out that a nurse handed in her notice because she objected to subjecting the public to temperature measurement using the current forehead thermometers.

She thought that they subjected the patient to infrared radiation, and that it was wrong to do so. Actually all the thermometer does is measure the IR which the body generates, but it does use a small laser for focus reasons, which may or may not be a concern.

She, surprisingly to me, clearly had a misconceprtion about the science.
 
#5,639

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