Well it's more long than informative IMHO... this guy definitely has a lot of time to spend on writing
Moreover, I didn't like some of the practices he write about in this paper. E.g. I would never bring any LP nowhere near to tap water... where I live the water is so hard that when you leave somewhere a drop of it to dry, it'll leave white powder on that surface!
Then, he writes about vacuum RCM - but declares he does not own one.
Then, he writes about ultrasonic RCM - but declares he does not own one.
So...
Yes it is long, but compare it to the hundreds of useless forum postings you have been reading in your life ....
Unfortunately you have to read it again, as he never says 'rinse with tap water and let it dry' or similar....
Did he write anything that is wrong ?
I think it is you who must read again, what I wrote. I wrote: I would never bring an LP in contact with tap water. At all...
Regarding the RCMs: he writes about general things, what is already written a million times everywhere. There is no first-hand, practical experience at all...
I have an US tank with the following parameters:
U = 220V
I = 0.6A
f = 35 kHz
It has four transducers glued to the bottom of the tank from the underside.
Is it suitable for record cleaning? I tried it with an 1:5 IPA+cleaned water mixture, with a drop of dishwasher. Small bubbles are appearing on the disc surface, and moving in all directions. Also some "steam"-like devils can be observed in the water, they magically appear, move and disappear.
U = 220V
I = 0.6A
f = 35 kHz
It has four transducers glued to the bottom of the tank from the underside.
Is it suitable for record cleaning? I tried it with an 1:5 IPA+cleaned water mixture, with a drop of dishwasher. Small bubbles are appearing on the disc surface, and moving in all directions. Also some "steam"-like devils can be observed in the water, they magically appear, move and disappear.
Hi bbftx,
Thank you for the effort and good advice you contribute on this thread!
I have two questions today:
You said: “I'm also not an ethanol fan. It's rated a "C" on most chemical compatibility with PVC charts. Isopropyl is A-rated.”
I looked at the chart you recommended: PVC (Polyvinyl chloride) Chemical Compatibility Chart This is actually a rating for Ethyl Alcohol, which I think, is different from Ethanol. Perhaps I'm wrong about this.
But I also found this: https://www.ipexna.com/media/10775/chemical-guide-us-ipex-pvc.pdf
Their highest rating for PVC is “generally resistant” which is the rating for both ethanol and IPA.
As I have used a mixture of Everclear and distilled water for many years with great success and no problems, I would like to get closer to understanding this.
Secondly, on another forum, tima's DIY RCM | What's Best Audio and Video Forum. The Best High End Audio Forum on the planet! The recommendation for a specific IPA brand is offered: MG Chemicals 824-1L 99.9% Isopropyl Alcohol
Do you have any experience with this brand? Do you have another specific brand you recommend?
Thanks,
Don
Pitting
HI lcsaszar,
Thanks for posting the video. Very helpful to see what's happening.
How old is that ultrasonic tank? It looks like it is severely pitted.
Personally, I would not use this for cleaning LPs because of the pitting. This can create hot spots in the tank, and also generate odd effects like those vortices seen in the video. I'd worry that the vortices and other artifacts could mean that excess cavitation energy in "hot spots" could be present that could damage surfaces of what you're cleaning. I don't know that for a fact, but I'd be wary.
Cheers,
B B
HI lcsaszar,
Thanks for posting the video. Very helpful to see what's happening.
How old is that ultrasonic tank? It looks like it is severely pitted.
Personally, I would not use this for cleaning LPs because of the pitting. This can create hot spots in the tank, and also generate odd effects like those vortices seen in the video. I'd worry that the vortices and other artifacts could mean that excess cavitation energy in "hot spots" could be present that could damage surfaces of what you're cleaning. I don't know that for a fact, but I'd be wary.
Cheers,
B B
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Hi Redcars,
The CPLabSafety chart I posted in your link has both Ethyl Alcohol and Ethanol listed, and both are "C-Fair". Ethanol and Ethyl Alcohol are indeed the same thing. ( I drink it, that makes me an expert. )
The reason I prefer this chart over the Ipex chart link you found is that the CP Lab chart has more nuance and levels of reactivity that are defined very clearly:
"Ratings: Chemical Effect
A = Excellent.
B = Good, Minor Effect, slight corrosion or discoloration
C = Fair, Moderate Effect, not recommended for continuous use. Softening, loss of strength, or swelling may occur.
D = Severe Effect, not recommended for ANY use."
To me anyway, a "C-Fair" rating isn't too great sounding, even for the short term exposure in a record cleaning machine. Why risk it when "A-excellent" compatibility is readily available using Isopropyl??
The IPA brand you link to is probably fine, but I haven't used that specific one. But any brand that has 99%+ plus IPA, no additives, and says they are complying with MIL-spec and ASTM specs is probably telling the truth --- it would be too easy for them to be debunked for them to exist making these claims falsely.
[One caveat, since my company sells products on Amazon and I've seen this happen: You can't put it past people to buy a product on Amazon, drain the good stuff out of the bottle, replacing it, and sending it back to Amazon to get a refund. Generally Amazon disposes of these returns, but it is possible for them to get returned to inventory for sale. It's a rare event, but if you buy on amazon, make sure the 99.9% pure IPA smells like IPA, and readily evaporates without leaving a residue - (smear a very small amount on a hard surface and let it evaporate). If it fails those tests, return the product for refund, saying it isn't what you ordered.]
Cheers,
B B
The CPLabSafety chart I posted in your link has both Ethyl Alcohol and Ethanol listed, and both are "C-Fair". Ethanol and Ethyl Alcohol are indeed the same thing. ( I drink it, that makes me an expert.
)The reason I prefer this chart over the Ipex chart link you found is that the CP Lab chart has more nuance and levels of reactivity that are defined very clearly:
"Ratings: Chemical Effect
A = Excellent.
B = Good, Minor Effect, slight corrosion or discoloration
C = Fair, Moderate Effect, not recommended for continuous use. Softening, loss of strength, or swelling may occur.
D = Severe Effect, not recommended for ANY use."
To me anyway, a "C-Fair" rating isn't too great sounding, even for the short term exposure in a record cleaning machine. Why risk it when "A-excellent" compatibility is readily available using Isopropyl??
The IPA brand you link to is probably fine, but I haven't used that specific one. But any brand that has 99%+ plus IPA, no additives, and says they are complying with MIL-spec and ASTM specs is probably telling the truth --- it would be too easy for them to be debunked for them to exist making these claims falsely.
[One caveat, since my company sells products on Amazon and I've seen this happen: You can't put it past people to buy a product on Amazon, drain the good stuff out of the bottle, replacing it, and sending it back to Amazon to get a refund. Generally Amazon disposes of these returns, but it is possible for them to get returned to inventory for sale. It's a rare event, but if you buy on amazon, make sure the 99.9% pure IPA smells like IPA, and readily evaporates without leaving a residue - (smear a very small amount on a hard surface and let it evaporate). If it fails those tests, return the product for refund, saying it isn't what you ordered.]
Cheers,
B B
Hi Destroyer,
You bought cheap units on eBay, correct? You SHOULD be afraid of this. While there have been a couple of positive experiences on this forum, there have been many more stories of poor quality and performance for purchases made on eBay, and for cheap Ultrasonic units in general.
To go down this ultrasonic cleaning path, users are best advised to buy a quality, well-regarded unit. That costs more money up front, unfortunately. But, they work.
Good luck,
B B
You bought cheap units on eBay, correct? You SHOULD be afraid of this. While there have been a couple of positive experiences on this forum, there have been many more stories of poor quality and performance for purchases made on eBay, and for cheap Ultrasonic units in general.
To go down this ultrasonic cleaning path, users are best advised to buy a quality, well-regarded unit. That costs more money up front, unfortunately. But, they work.
Good luck,
B B
So there seems to be a flurry of cheap ultrasonic RCMs out there recently. Like this: https://www.ebay.com/i/323763180331...LtbCrGGJe6DZ5_Orc58lDlPAyQkjnc0xoClJkQAvD_BwE
Presumably they are problematic US units but I wonder if anyone has tried them. 6L seems marginal for size but they look to be narrower than the slightly larger units that work, so probably longer. Of course, narrower means fewer records. Hmmmm.
Presumably they are problematic US units but I wonder if anyone has tried them. 6L seems marginal for size but they look to be narrower than the slightly larger units that work, so probably longer. Of course, narrower means fewer records. Hmmmm.