My records often sound really crackly after I sonic clean. I'm wondering why?
I use some alcohol and then distilled water in 10L, with a filter system I run between cleanings. Then I use distilled water and quickly vacuum it off for a rinse, and let it air dry.
Right now I have to return/replace my 2nd Ultrasonic. First one had multiple non-functioning frequency generators it seems, second one smells like burning electronics... but it appears to work properly?
I use some alcohol and then distilled water in 10L, with a filter system I run between cleanings. Then I use distilled water and quickly vacuum it off for a rinse, and let it air dry.
Right now I have to return/replace my 2nd Ultrasonic. First one had multiple non-functioning frequency generators it seems, second one smells like burning electronics... but it appears to work properly?
I can't say I've noticed *more*, but they certainly seem better defined as are music transients. Weirdly, I find that they're easier to ignore because of improvements elsewhere in the SQ.
My assumption has been that there is 'grit' stuck in the grooves, probably fused to the walls after repeated playing. It's never going to come out even with UC. The grit gets surrounded by dirt so becomes less transient+harder to hear. UC removes the dirt, so the stylus really hits them and they become sharper transients.
I've used the click detection on Vinyl Studio to do before and after comparisons on UC and sometime get up to 75% more clicks found after UC. VS lets me look at each click detected and repaired, and the majority are really small, short duration, certainly not audible over speakers, even at high volume.
So I think the cleaning is sharpening them to the point where the click detection algorithm discovers them.
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I should mention I'm cleaning vinyl from the 70-90s, none of that fancy audiophile stuff...
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There was an AES paper some decades back that measured record friction before and after cleaning and in all cases friction increased after cleaning. As one of the causes of noise is 'stick/slip' fricion in some cases the vinyl formulation will have a large enough increase in friction to be noticable. Sadly he didn't note which record labels or pressing plants and no one has tried to replicate this so there is a huge loose end here. I suspect the friction will go back down over time but no evidence.
This is why I tend not to clean new records or ones that just have surface dust. But that is just a personal preference.
This is why I tend not to clean new records or ones that just have surface dust. But that is just a personal preference.
I guess that makes sense. I wonder if there's a way to improve it? Maybe some sort of lubricant type stuff?
Just for interest here are the two tables from the Pardee AES paper from 1981 which shows the change in friction from cleaning and the effect of various lubricants. It shows some records are affected significantly by cleaning and some almost no change. Cartridge and record modulation also play a part as low compliance cartridges increase friction with modulation more than high compliance ones.
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Hi Destroyer
Could this be static electricity? Do you have a zerostat you can try?
I'd return that 2nd URC and spend some more money to get a decent unit.
Cheers,
B B
It's possible. But I've done what I can to reduce static.
When I vacuum off the water I don't do it to dry the album to reduce friction. I have used hepistat as well but doesn't change results.
I don't have a Zerostat but maybe should get one. I have an old ion blower but I fear maybe it was sold on eBay because it's worn out? The tips could be bad. It still has ozone smell. It doesn't change anything I noticed when I blow it on album for several seconds on each side.
When I vacuum off the water I don't do it to dry the album to reduce friction. I have used hepistat as well but doesn't change results.
I don't have a Zerostat but maybe should get one. I have an old ion blower but I fear maybe it was sold on eBay because it's worn out? The tips could be bad. It still has ozone smell. It doesn't change anything I noticed when I blow it on album for several seconds on each side.
Honestly, you may be better off just using an Ilfotol dilution as a cleaning fluid on the vacuum RCM (with some gentle agitation with a good fiber brush) and rinsing with distilled water than even bothering with ultrasonic at all. I made the switch a while back and haven't bothered with ultrasonic in over a year now. My results are significantly better as well. At this point, the only use I'd have for the ultrasonic would be really nasty moldy oldies as a pre-rinse so as not to excessively muck up the felt lips on my vacuum RCM.
But the differences are, generally, remarkably small for the before and after cleaning data set. The lubed up coefficients are remarkably low, but what did they use? Was it likely to be otherwise harmless? I've always stayed away from putting permanent treatments on LPs. Permastat anyone?
Something related, how much effect does ambient temperature have on vinyl during playback? I'm sure the plastic must change in rigidity and, to a lesser extent, shape, as temperatures move through a range, say 18-25c. Should we be making sure TTs have heaters for the winter???
I'm tempted to try and make some sort of water jet system instead of using US, something more gentle. But not being able to do more than 1 at a time is bad.
I once read someone said that their discs they cleaned were kinda crackly on the first play but not after that. The heat of the stylus is enough to soften the edges of exposed vinyl holes from debris moved.
My question would be are these debris being removed partly with expansion? The answer would seem to be yes. In which case **** me, I should have never put a couple records through the US.
I once read someone said that their discs they cleaned were kinda crackly on the first play but not after that. The heat of the stylus is enough to soften the edges of exposed vinyl holes from debris moved.
My question would be are these debris being removed partly with expansion? The answer would seem to be yes. In which case **** me, I should have never put a couple records through the US.
The only time ultrasonic has damaged any of my records was due to excessive heat when the motor for the rotation wasn't running. Whatever issue you're having, I doubt that the ultrasonic is at fault. Try to limit any chemical additives in the tank to something very minimal, or pre-clean on a vacuum RCM and use the ultrasonic as a rinse pass with pure water.
And the water jet idea does work very well, especially with really nasty, moldy records. Basically the GEM Dandy, which always struck me as pretty DIY already. FWIW, a large part of what makes that effective is still the cleaning solution. Either way, *NEVER* let unfiltered tap water dry on the record grooves. Always rinse with distilled water and vacuum that crud off ASAP.
And the water jet idea does work very well, especially with really nasty, moldy records. Basically the GEM Dandy, which always struck me as pretty DIY already. FWIW, a large part of what makes that effective is still the cleaning solution. Either way, *NEVER* let unfiltered tap water dry on the record grooves. Always rinse with distilled water and vacuum that crud off ASAP.
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In general, but there were outliers. It's not a definitive data set but some interesting pointers for further research.
. He didn't tell sadly.
Very little. If PVC did that you wouldn't use it for pipes.
What heat? Doesn't happen.
I'm running distilled only water for everything. And a little IPA, not a lot. My rinse is always vacuumed off.
GEM Dandy is ok but it's 1 at a time, and you can't use distilled very easily; maybe for the rinse it works.
Yeah. As long as the tap water isn't allowed to dry in the grooves, and you rinse it later with distilled, it should be fine. You can also add an inline filter to the spray nozzle hose, or to the line feeding the sink itself. You can do roughly the same thing for way less with the Vinyl ‘1’ Stack from VinylStack.
REGARDLESS, 50 ml of Ilfotol in 32oz of distilled water makes a perfectly adequate record cleaning solution when used on an RCM with *GENTLE* scrubbing and a rinse pass. I get better results with a variation of that (along with some TergiKleen, EDTA, and Hepastat 256) than I've gotten with anything else that I've tried since starting this hobby 8 years ago. Excellent results.