Dropbox - Screenshot_2020-10-03-10-59-42-539_com.speakerbox.app.jpg - Simplify your life
2liters closed box vs 10liters vented box tuned to 55hz
I figured it would not make so much of a difference when used for midrange
2liters closed box vs 10liters vented box tuned to 55hz
I figured it would not make so much of a difference when used for midrange
You can meet up with your midbass driver at 600Hz. Then you have some warm bass. and dont over use the mid.
LR12 invert pol = perfect phase
LR24 = perfect phase
LR48 = perfect phase
Ps. Your midbass will need a bafflestep compensation cut, to sound good.
A lot of low bass will disappear behind it.
LR12 invert pol = perfect phase
LR24 = perfect phase
LR48 = perfect phase
Ps. Your midbass will need a bafflestep compensation cut, to sound good.
A lot of low bass will disappear behind it.
Last edited:
Viper_user
Tried so many ways but Always came back to No EQ actually
It's Still a little to much bass, i am crossing att 350hz now
I turn the midrange a few DB down with the different sensitivities in mind.
Did not found out My phases yet but i did invert them for 12 LR as you adviced
And it sound really Good now!
The female voices suddenly feels much more smooth and nice
The sound is big and soft and warm but also precise.
I think with a better midrange driver and the aetd15m midbass it will be really Nice
The infinite baffle makes a Good job giving the sound a Good weight and the current 15"s mske a fast clean and soft base.
It gave me the idea to try them as extra subs later in the same system
Somtak 15" 100wrms
Tried so many ways but Always came back to No EQ actually
It's Still a little to much bass, i am crossing att 350hz now
I turn the midrange a few DB down with the different sensitivities in mind.
Did not found out My phases yet but i did invert them for 12 LR as you adviced
And it sound really Good now!
The female voices suddenly feels much more smooth and nice
The sound is big and soft and warm but also precise.
I think with a better midrange driver and the aetd15m midbass it will be really Nice
The infinite baffle makes a Good job giving the sound a Good weight and the current 15"s mske a fast clean and soft base.
It gave me the idea to try them as extra subs later in the same system
Somtak 15" 100wrms
Don't forgett that what you hear with voices and the amt are essentialy not fundamentals and for some resons human voices has low harmonics 
... It's certainly the whole spl that please you here when you talk about better female voices or at least I surmise it...
The TPLs driver are not said to be especially good in their low end about HD and damping vs very good domes... that's why some prefer to use it a little higher around 1800 to 2000 hz cut-off...very clean aove, at least for the tpl200, the 150 is less documented in diy forum I believe...
... It's certainly the whole spl that please you here when you talk about better female voices or at least I surmise it...The TPLs driver are not said to be especially good in their low end about HD and damping vs very good domes... that's why some prefer to use it a little higher around 1800 to 2000 hz cut-off...very clean aove, at least for the tpl200, the 150 is less documented in diy forum I believe...
What I've learned in more than 30 years of DIY: to reach to the point where a system produces FUN is not a question of money nor a question of space, its just a question of knowledge. And the more the complexity grows, the more reduces this the ability to fine-tune such a system for people without that knowledge.
Result is: without knowledge, your ability to bring such a highly complex matter (I would call it highest level of achievement: an active multy way speaker system) to play and tune is going in the direction of ZERO.
Start small, with just a passive system.
Maybe you've never in your whole life heard a small system that qualifies to satisfy completely, but its possible.
For me, its all about avoiding doing mistakes. What is a mistake in audio?
It could be a falsely choosen speaker driver, it could be a wrongly adopted technique, it could be a mismatch between components etc. People do so many faults and in the end, their system just plays with mediocre sound and they swap gear. And they swap and swap their whole life, never achieving a satisfied sound and a system that plays up to the point which its being able to.
The designers of gear do mistakes, too in engineering. Because they want to be cheap.
I would say, when your ready in some years with your mediocre playing full active system, I'll blew it out of its room with a simple, small installation of a passive system.
Simply because it avoids faults, that you'll have in your system still. And are not being aware that they are existent. Audio is such a big and broad cosmos of knowledge and every small detail in the end counts in terms of sound.
Of course you can go digital and DSP all faults in the end out of your sound. Thats what most people do when being bored by their imperfect sounding systems. Its just the last statement for them to say:sorry, the system complexity is way over what I could manage to analyze or understand and bring to the point of playing music with satisfaction.
If you have not enough knowledge, don't start climbing the mount everest first. Its simply higly risky and wouldn't be a good start to begin with.
Result is: without knowledge, your ability to bring such a highly complex matter (I would call it highest level of achievement: an active multy way speaker system) to play and tune is going in the direction of ZERO.
Start small, with just a passive system.
Maybe you've never in your whole life heard a small system that qualifies to satisfy completely, but its possible.
For me, its all about avoiding doing mistakes. What is a mistake in audio?
It could be a falsely choosen speaker driver, it could be a wrongly adopted technique, it could be a mismatch between components etc. People do so many faults and in the end, their system just plays with mediocre sound and they swap gear. And they swap and swap their whole life, never achieving a satisfied sound and a system that plays up to the point which its being able to.
The designers of gear do mistakes, too in engineering. Because they want to be cheap.
I would say, when your ready in some years with your mediocre playing full active system, I'll blew it out of its room with a simple, small installation of a passive system.
Simply because it avoids faults, that you'll have in your system still. And are not being aware that they are existent. Audio is such a big and broad cosmos of knowledge and every small detail in the end counts in terms of sound.
Of course you can go digital and DSP all faults in the end out of your sound. Thats what most people do when being bored by their imperfect sounding systems. Its just the last statement for them to say:sorry, the system complexity is way over what I could manage to analyze or understand and bring to the point of playing music with satisfaction.
If you have not enough knowledge, don't start climbing the mount everest first. Its simply higly risky and wouldn't be a good start to begin with.
Last edited:
3500 is a better zone than 2500, you don't want the cut mid the human voice. A big difference with 3ways+, voices tend to lay unstressful in the mix.
What is your target mid driver atm?
Last edited:
Schmitz77
I know exactly what you mean but this is a way of life for me, it is insticts.
Im dying a swimmingpool and some other things at the same time, i do bodybuilding sometimes and all this crazy stuff.
sometimes i wish i was just like ordinary People but it is not going to happen, if the others go right i will go left.
I did some pa systems when i was younger but now i really Enjoy this more than ever. I think of My system from that i Wake Up till i go to sleep.
I can't think of the way to learn about speaker systems better than going this way because i will adjust it Forever and change it the more i learn.
I take your Words to me really and it is a Good reminder for me.
It's more than the sound and once again im very thankful for this discussion.
Much great knowledge shared here that i think is valuable for many People
Im prepared to take this system to the next level☺️
I know exactly what you mean but this is a way of life for me, it is insticts.
Im dying a swimmingpool and some other things at the same time, i do bodybuilding sometimes and all this crazy stuff.
sometimes i wish i was just like ordinary People but it is not going to happen, if the others go right i will go left.
I did some pa systems when i was younger but now i really Enjoy this more than ever. I think of My system from that i Wake Up till i go to sleep.
I can't think of the way to learn about speaker systems better than going this way because i will adjust it Forever and change it the more i learn.
I take your Words to me really and it is a Good reminder for me.
It's more than the sound and once again im very thankful for this discussion.
Much great knowledge shared here that i think is valuable for many People
Im prepared to take this system to the next level☺️
What's my target md driver atm is?
Not sure i understand ☺️
Not sure i understand ☺️
3500 is a better zone than 2500, you don't want the cut mid the human voice. A big difference with 3ways+, voices tend to lay unstressful in the mix.
What is your target mid driver atm?
Jonasz
Thank you ☺️
My requirements are
Clean between 200 and 4000hz
Alot of drivers are out because of the frequency range
It's Good because it's less to choose from
Flexunits is tempting, might spontaniosly order s pair 😁
The visaton does a pretty good job, just more soft sound would be nice.
Maybe it would work better along with the td15m
Thank you ☺️
My requirements are
Clean between 200 and 4000hz
Alot of drivers are out because of the frequency range
It's Good because it's less to choose from
Flexunits is tempting, might spontaniosly order s pair 😁
The visaton does a pretty good job, just more soft sound would be nice.
Maybe it would work better along with the td15m
few stock or none everywhere : made on demand with catalog spec or your choices as for illustration voice coil material, T&S parameters, Read the good pages from Troels Gravsen about Audiotechnology drivers.
For sure a 8" and a 4" or 5" and a good tweeters (there are many those days : ribbons, Be dome, soft dome, ceramic domes at every prices. Be is certainy a good mix between silk softness and ceramic details without big peaks below 30 K hz that could back pollute the audio band according what the ears and material can get/catch...
Your AMT above an Audiotechnology above 3k to 3.5 khz could certainly be good if the off axis match between drivers... according the slope and XO you will choose. A Viawave ribbon is the same price the matched pair in Poland or a little more expensive at Audiophonics. certainly a good match too!
As you're active, it's easy to play, however I surmise the electronics to be the weak chain with such sota, expensive drivers. Cabinet is always a challenge -if it was not and if I was not on the slow ecological save the planet side, I will make a speaker evey three months like Troels Gravsen... without the talent of him-
I will re shelves the Beyma AMT for a further high spl boom boom project (18" + 10" or 12" or 8" all PA + the TPL150 and will focus on the smooth side of your project by trying due to the specialists here to match the drivers together with their spec for the best soundstage- off course I am not - still in sow learning phase till 10 years - I just refurbish fro time to time, friends' loudspeakers or neighboors ones-
According the room a part of smoothness-soundstage-softness will come from the off axis choice I assume as the spl curve shape.
That's not meaning you can not sucess with the Beyma, but reading several threads here and elsewhere, the Beyma and amts generaly are hard to work with : try to fing threads by people like AngelloItacare and else that worked hardly to choose the mid between the Beyma and the bass unit...
You need something fast and smooth that marry the Beyma off axis, imho above 2k due to the Beyma and some waterfall shown on the net !
Fast means very low Le and flat frequencies for the XO if I understood well - It's certainly fast and a too big shortcut but if I'm wrong the knowledged gentlement with extended experience and not only theory will correct the input.
There are 6" drivers from the hifi range that are 0.1 to 0.2 uH on the datasheet that should match... of course the fact you have an amp per driver helps a lot and the driver will go fast enough to match the spl... You should have to look at the waterfalls as well : below 2 ms to try to match the AMT...
That's theory only, real world is more complicate and here I don't know but those few words I hope will help to focus on the good items with the help of others with real experience about construct and drivers choices - LineSources, ScottG, etc . Many valuable members you very should to read twice imho
Hope that helps... a little at least
In your shoes I will try ro retro engineere the Troels Gravsen Preleude to make it active
For sure a 8" and a 4" or 5" and a good tweeters (there are many those days : ribbons, Be dome, soft dome, ceramic domes at every prices. Be is certainy a good mix between silk softness and ceramic details without big peaks below 30 K hz that could back pollute the audio band according what the ears and material can get/catch...
Your AMT above an Audiotechnology above 3k to 3.5 khz could certainly be good if the off axis match between drivers... according the slope and XO you will choose. A Viawave ribbon is the same price the matched pair in Poland or a little more expensive at Audiophonics. certainly a good match too!
As you're active, it's easy to play, however I surmise the electronics to be the weak chain with such sota, expensive drivers. Cabinet is always a challenge -if it was not and if I was not on the slow ecological save the planet side, I will make a speaker evey three months like Troels Gravsen... without the talent of him
-I will re shelves the Beyma AMT for a further high spl boom boom project (18" + 10" or 12" or 8" all PA + the TPL150 and will focus on the smooth side of your project by trying due to the specialists here to match the drivers together with their spec for the best soundstage- off course I am not - still in sow learning phase till 10 years - I just refurbish fro time to time, friends' loudspeakers or neighboors ones-
According the room a part of smoothness-soundstage-softness will come from the off axis choice I assume as the spl curve shape.
That's not meaning you can not sucess with the Beyma, but reading several threads here and elsewhere, the Beyma and amts generaly are hard to work with : try to fing threads by people like AngelloItacare and else that worked hardly to choose the mid between the Beyma and the bass unit...
You need something fast and smooth that marry the Beyma off axis, imho above 2k due to the Beyma and some waterfall shown on the net !
Fast means very low Le and flat frequencies for the XO if I understood well - It's certainly fast and a too big shortcut but if I'm wrong the knowledged gentlement with extended experience and not only theory will correct the input.
There are 6" drivers from the hifi range that are 0.1 to 0.2 uH on the datasheet that should match... of course the fact you have an amp per driver helps a lot and the driver will go fast enough to match the spl... You should have to look at the waterfalls as well : below 2 ms to try to match the AMT...
That's theory only, real world is more complicate and here I don't know but those few words I hope will help to focus on the good items with the help of others with real experience about construct and drivers choices - LineSources, ScottG, etc . Many valuable members you very should to read twice imho
Hope that helps... a little at least
In your shoes I will try ro retro engineere the Troels Gravsen Preleude to make it active
Good morning digitalthor
A recap is probably a Good thing at this point
The system that i used till recently i bought in a store and i was actually starting to get annoyed with it.
To much vocal sound and a subwoofer that was impossible to callibrate.
Calibration of a subwoofer, should be possible with a simple DSP for the subwoofer alone.
My reference sound is a SVS speaker called prime tower. It's the best sounding complete speaker that i heard.
The SVS speaker are designed with a 4,5" midrange and a crossover at 2,1kHz:
SVS Prime Tower Speaker Reviewed
You can see how the frequency response is pretty smooth around the crossover and that they cross low to get a bette polar response - why he mentions the Revel speakers too.... that usualy also has a smooth and even FR.
Which is why I truly dont understand all the talk about crossing over at 3500 - 4500Hz
I dont know if i would call this a PA system
Fair enough... but it seemed like alot bigger speakers than the Dali and the SVS
Yes i have all the hardware, exept for the analyzing tools.
And midrange driver
Getting the analyzing tools up and running, will really give you some perspective on how things work and how you will have a much better idea about why something sound like it does
Yes 30sqm
Then you might have reflective surfaces close by.... making a speaker with an even polar response, and maybe a waveguided tweeter - a better choice.
I learned so much from this discussion already.
And i think using an active system allowed me to learn even more just by trying different settings.
I definitely missed out some basics.
Yes - you will gain so much more, when you start measuring your constructions and choice of filters and EQ.
I do like and elevated Tweeter but i am very sensitive to shouty sound
I mostly find "shouty sound" to be problems with the upper midrange and crossover betwen the midrange and tweeter.
Very Good points, the Dali speakers sound pretty good when i i plug them in to the Active system but not so much before that. Too much midrange i believe
You could try to EQ the Dali's to gain experinece about what part op the sound that makes you dislike or like it
Last edited:
few stock or none everywhere : made on demand with catalog spec or your choices as for illustration voice coil material, T&S parameters, Read the good pages from Troels Gravsen about Audiotechnology drivers.
-Yes, i think its seems to be a very reasably prices driver
Worth waitning for i guess
I can use the visaton in the meantime
Ill check out his words, do you have a link?
For sure a 8" and a 4" or 5" and a good tweeters (there are many those days : ribbons, Be dome, soft dome, ceramic domes at every prices. Be is certainy a good mix between silk softness and ceramic details without big peaks below 30 K hz that could back pollute the audio band according what the ears and material can get/catch...
-The visaton does a great job in the higher midrange frequencies
I tried a soft dome tweeter the other day but that felt lame
Your AMT above an Audiotechnology above 3k to 3.5 khz could certainly be good if the off axis match between drivers... according the slope and XO you will choose. A Viawave ribbon is the same price the matched pair in Poland or a little more expensive at Audiophonics. certainly a good match too!
I do like this driver, it has a bit of an edge but does not make the ears tired
Do you have a link to a polish shop?
I only was shopping from Holland and Gremany so far
As you're active, it's easy to play, however I surmise the electronics to be the weak chain with such sota, expensive drivers. Cabinet is always a challenge -if it was not and if I was not on the slow ecological save the planet side, I will make a speaker evey three months like Troels Gravsen... without the talent of him -
-Well since i am active i can try my way, also have some ideas to develop the baffles
-THIS is very interesting, the electronics
Right now i am using
* Dayton audio Bt reciever
*Behringer DCX2496LE Ultradrive
*behringer super x pro for subs
*3xBehringer A800 studio amp
* 1x T-amp 400wrms for the IB sub (4 chanel amp if want more subs)
*2.5mm cables à 10 meters
the amps is in another room
What do you guys honestly think about this?
I was thinking about trying a Tube Pre-amplifier.
What do you think and where would i put it? before or after DSP?
I will order test equipment / mic so i could try one while shopping
I will re shelves the Beyma AMT for a further high spl boom boom project (18" + 10" or 12" or 8" all PA + the TPL150 and will focus on the smooth side of your project by trying due to the specialists here to match the drivers together with their spec for the best soundstage- off course I am not - still in sow learning phase till 10 years - I just refurbish fro time to time, friends' loudspeakers or neighboors ones-
According the room a part of smoothness-soundstage-softness will come from the off axis choice I assume as the spl curve shape.
That's not meaning you can not sucess with the Beyma, but reading several threads here and elsewhere, the Beyma and amts generaly are hard to work with : try to fing threads by people like AngelloItacare and else that worked hardly to choose the mid between the Beyma and the bass unit...
You need something fast and smooth that marry the Beyma off axis, imho above 2k due to the Beyma and some waterfall shown on the net !
-I see! when i have the opportunity i will try other drivers
Maybe i will have to build a new room in the house for to fit a system that fits the Beyma=)
Fast means very low Le and flat frequencies for the XO if I understood well - It's certainly fast and a too big shortcut but if I'm wrong the knowledged gentlement with extended experience and not only theory will correct the input.
There are 6" drivers from the hifi range that are 0.1 to 0.2 uH on the datasheet that should match... of course the fact you have an amp per driver helps a lot and the driver will go fast enough to match the spl... You should have to look at the waterfalls as well : below 2 ms to try to match the AMT...
-What kind of driver has that specs? I thought the visaton was really low on the graph but i am not an expert on reading those
That's theory only, real world is more complicate and here I don't know but those few words I hope will help to focus on the good items with the help of others with real experience about construct and drivers choices - LineSources, ScottG, etc . Many valuable members you very should to read twice imho
-I am definitely reading everything more than twice=)
Hope that helps... a little at least
Yes-more things to learn, i thank you
In your shoes I will try ro retro engineere the Troels Gravsen Preleude to make it active
-Yes, i think its seems to be a very reasably prices driver
Worth waitning for i guess
I can use the visaton in the meantime
Ill check out his words, do you have a link?
For sure a 8" and a 4" or 5" and a good tweeters (there are many those days : ribbons, Be dome, soft dome, ceramic domes at every prices. Be is certainy a good mix between silk softness and ceramic details without big peaks below 30 K hz that could back pollute the audio band according what the ears and material can get/catch...
-The visaton does a great job in the higher midrange frequencies
I tried a soft dome tweeter the other day but that felt lame
Your AMT above an Audiotechnology above 3k to 3.5 khz could certainly be good if the off axis match between drivers... according the slope and XO you will choose. A Viawave ribbon is the same price the matched pair in Poland or a little more expensive at Audiophonics. certainly a good match too!
I do like this driver, it has a bit of an edge but does not make the ears tired
Do you have a link to a polish shop?
I only was shopping from Holland and Gremany so far
As you're active, it's easy to play, however I surmise the electronics to be the weak chain with such sota, expensive drivers. Cabinet is always a challenge -if it was not and if I was not on the slow ecological save the planet side, I will make a speaker evey three months like Troels Gravsen... without the talent of him -
-Well since i am active i can try my way, also have some ideas to develop the baffles
-THIS is very interesting, the electronics
Right now i am using
* Dayton audio Bt reciever
*Behringer DCX2496LE Ultradrive
*behringer super x pro for subs
*3xBehringer A800 studio amp
* 1x T-amp 400wrms for the IB sub (4 chanel amp if want more subs)
*2.5mm cables à 10 meters
the amps is in another room
What do you guys honestly think about this?
I was thinking about trying a Tube Pre-amplifier.
What do you think and where would i put it? before or after DSP?
I will order test equipment / mic so i could try one while shopping
I will re shelves the Beyma AMT for a further high spl boom boom project (18" + 10" or 12" or 8" all PA + the TPL150 and will focus on the smooth side of your project by trying due to the specialists here to match the drivers together with their spec for the best soundstage- off course I am not - still in sow learning phase till 10 years - I just refurbish fro time to time, friends' loudspeakers or neighboors ones-
According the room a part of smoothness-soundstage-softness will come from the off axis choice I assume as the spl curve shape.
That's not meaning you can not sucess with the Beyma, but reading several threads here and elsewhere, the Beyma and amts generaly are hard to work with : try to fing threads by people like AngelloItacare and else that worked hardly to choose the mid between the Beyma and the bass unit...
You need something fast and smooth that marry the Beyma off axis, imho above 2k due to the Beyma and some waterfall shown on the net !
-I see! when i have the opportunity i will try other drivers
Maybe i will have to build a new room in the house for to fit a system that fits the Beyma=)
Fast means very low Le and flat frequencies for the XO if I understood well - It's certainly fast and a too big shortcut but if I'm wrong the knowledged gentlement with extended experience and not only theory will correct the input.
There are 6" drivers from the hifi range that are 0.1 to 0.2 uH on the datasheet that should match... of course the fact you have an amp per driver helps a lot and the driver will go fast enough to match the spl... You should have to look at the waterfalls as well : below 2 ms to try to match the AMT...
-What kind of driver has that specs? I thought the visaton was really low on the graph but i am not an expert on reading those
That's theory only, real world is more complicate and here I don't know but those few words I hope will help to focus on the good items with the help of others with real experience about construct and drivers choices - LineSources, ScottG, etc . Many valuable members you very should to read twice imho
-I am definitely reading everything more than twice=)
Hope that helps... a little at least
Yes-more things to learn, i thank you
In your shoes I will try ro retro engineere the Troels Gravsen Preleude to make it active
Is this data aviable somewhere?
Since i have the visaton ti100 in a box maybe i should try to understand it to get some perspective
Since i have the visaton ti100 in a box maybe i should try to understand it to get some perspective
I tell Google by voice command what volume i want.
It's connected buy a bluetooth receiver to my Google Nest.
What do you think about a tube preamp?
That would be a more fin device
Yes i did that ☺️
Seems like it's less Buzz when i turn the dbx Max Up and the amps adjusted
I use half of the max gain now
It's connected buy a bluetooth receiver to my Google Nest.
What do you think about a tube preamp?
That would be a more fin device
Have you got your hands on any fun volume control yet?
I recommend lowering the amps to your max listening level so the filter got maximum signal when working. 220w / 8ohm / driver set is alot
Yes i did that ☺️
Seems like it's less Buzz when i turn the dbx Max Up and the amps adjusted
I use half of the max gain now