Full Range TC9 Line Array CNC Cabinet This is what I am using now. The effort required to get it to sound like they do now was quite an undertaking and would have been much greater without the assistance of wesayso.
There are some things that are not quite as good as the LX521 but I can get very close to those moments with EQ changes, the problem is that those EQ changes (that mimic the things I liked about LX521) only work on a few tracks and make everything else sound worse.
I have come to the realisation that the speaker an individual prefers has a lot to do with their musical taste. Mine is quite eclectic but includes a lot of heavy and aggressive tracks. These are the ones I find separate the ability of speakers, if you can play the chorus of "Show me how to live" by Audioslave on them without wincing they are doing something right 🙂
Equalizer APO also have really good eq and vst engine. It's also free and can be used for crossovers
Dragging an old timer like me towards DQ etc is a slowly slowly thing, i shall mull it over, occasionally i find a bit of tech i can grasp, even the basics of Foobar were comprehensible, so lets let it sink in for a bit!
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The basic eq is plug and play. Making a crossover takes a bit of reading, but first setup quite easy. Best part is its a system wide eq.
The basic eq is plug and play. Making a crossover takes a bit of reading, but first setup quite easy. Best part is its a system wide eq.
Forgive me, i am way out my knowledge and comfort zone here.
I use Foobar with Wasapi to get bit perfect transfer to my DAC, i think, so i close foobar to run REW, otherwise Foobar stops REW running at all, i think as i understand it that this program will take output from REW, Foobar and other things and EQ it to choice, so i can mess around with EQ using REW and get it flat or some other shape and then use the same EQ to play Foobar "through" it and hence expect the music to be EQ'd for the response i have chosen.
Q1, is that correct please
Q2, does it mess up my bit perfect output that for me was quite a challenge, but sounds way better than windows media player............thanks, mike
If you use foobar just stick with that. The equalizer APO do not work with wasapi or ASIO. But foobar has plenty DSP possibilities. I must admit I have dropped the PC for DSP for dedicated separate DSP. This is easier and more stable.
You don't have to like it to use it as a test track 🙂 The point of something like that is that it is a real challenge for a speaker to reproduce without harshness. Lynn Olsen uses some dense harmonic structured orchestral music for the same reason, and he says is often asked to leave demonstrations and take his music with him at shows. These type of tracks make a lot of speakers sound terrible. Not popular when you are trying to sell them.
Hmm, I realised that SL and I were not looking for the same thing from a speaker. I get the best imaging when I aim my speakers directly at my listening position and reduce early reflections below 20dB for the first 20ms. Dipoles work best for me in a room that is big enough for them. Your room is not big enough for that. That doesn't mean they can't work or sound good, but magic probably not easy.
Imaging means many different things to different people, and lots of arguments start over it because of these different unspoken interpretations.
Take your time the offer of help was genuine and not a one day special offer 😉
Avoiding the operating system from interfering with audio processing when it wasn't asked for or needed is a laudable aim and for the most part, the issues that brought the phrase "bit perfect" into being are not as big a problem as they once were.
You can't use DSP, software volume levelling or any other operation like that and have bit perfect playback. The bits have to be changed for all those things to occur. Your Hypex DSP is messing it up already. But it doesn't matter, using wasapi or ASIO drivers is a good idea as most are written better.
Q1 Unless the drivers are multi client then they can only operate with a single program, they interface the software to the hardware directly without an intervening layer.
Q2 See above as to why bit perfect is already violated
The important thing to find when using REW's EQ function is an equaliser that uses the same Q definition as REW is using. The generic REW EQ is a match for Jriver's PEQ. Some are quite different. This can result in the response being quite different than designed.
I wished there was a hardware DSP that could do what I want it to.
Another thing that can help with imaging is to make sure that you are listening at the exact centre between the two speakers. Physically measuring can help. To check make a measurement from your listening position at your seated ear height in REW with both speakers playing and look at the impulse response. There will probably be two peaks where the speakers fire at slightly different times, by moving the mic left or right the peaks will move, the aim is to get them aligned. This is the best place to listen from.
Matching levels and frequency response between the two speakers will also help.
Matching levels and frequency response between the two speakers will also help.
For pure x over eq delay and room correction a hardware dsp is sufficient. On PC I could also insert analysis tools in my vst chain, which was great to optimize level to stay within clipping levels etc
If it works for you that is great and I am sure for most uses you would be correct. I used one with LX521 and it did exactly what was needed. For me there is no hardware device powerful enough to replicate the processing I use and as I use a computer as a source exclusively there is no benefit to using a hardware device, I appreciate that not everybody is in the same position.
Yes processing power for FIR is really the benefit of using a PC. Processing power of any reasonably prices hardware DSP is quite limited.
OK, so first up today, how do you do that multiquote where you can answer below a section of the same message please? - i can do the separate messages bit but not parts of the same one.........
Learning these light tech things might inch me towards some basic programming.....!
Unfortunately the unreasonably priced ones are also quite limited when compared to even the most basic computer. A Raspberry Pi can trounce most of them. Seems the market is too niche for the hardware chips to have developed at the same pace as general computing
Thanks for that, definitely my style for a while!
I feel that's the most difficult genre to get sounding anything like realistic, jazz is really easy in comparison.
I guess i had an underlying feeling that was the case, so i like the idea of hearing the magic, don't need heavy bass etc, actually my Fusions are already tight and fast in that area, probably more than i need, so in this room or our lounge TV room which is smaller, 4.5m square, where does one look for the magic?
Many thanks, i might be up for installing a different Hypex filter if you have the patience, i think i have three presets which are all set the same, crossover at 200Hz, if i moved that up to say 300hz on one of the presets, i don't lose what i need for the Fusion and could experiment, but how to do that is rocket science to me!!
This is a different space vehicle again, but you never know, one day!
I have found the same by default, actually when i moved the mic by mistake and got a spurious response until i worked it out, but one of the aspects in SL's description is the wider or general sense of imaging from all around the room, i can get it on a narrow central band with the Fusions as were, i feel the band is slightly wider with the current Kludge, i would love to at least experience the magic and see if i like it and that was the hope with my experiment, but more and more it seems unlikely to be available in this rabbit hole!
You got the hang of multi quoting 🙂
To make the best transition separate measurements of the woofer without any processing and the mid with crossover in place would be needed. Ideally quasi anechoic and with off axis measurements too.
That is a hard one to answer, there is no universal definition of "magic" in this context. If you have an idea of what that means to you then maybe there will be some ideas to go in that direction.
I will download the Hypex Filter designer and see if I can get it to work. If I can do that then you can tell me what you want the filter to be.
To make the best transition separate measurements of the woofer without any processing and the mid with crossover in place would be needed. Ideally quasi anechoic and with off axis measurements too.
If one reads SL's pages that have been regularly referred to in this thread, that is the idea of the magic i have The-Magic-in-2-Channel-Sound
and specifically this bit
"The magic occurs when the loudspeakers seemingly disappear from the sound scene, to the point where one is inclined to ask: what are these two contraptions in front of me doing? All that is perceived is a phantom scene. A scene, which is not hard bounded by loudspeakers, softly windowed and extends behind and above the speakers. While there is a sweet spot, namely the apex of an equilateral triangle, the scene does not collapse into the nearest speaker upon moving to one side, but stays between the speakers with a perspective similar to what one would hear at a concert sitting to the side.
Also, when farther away from the speakers and deep into the reverberant field in the listening room, the tonality does not change. The room is easily forgotten.
The magic is difficult to describe in pictures or words but is recognized within 30 seconds when heard. It usually elicits a big smile or even laughter from the listener. Naive listeners, audiophiles and professionals alike recognize the naturalness of presentation. On many recordings it is 3D in front of the listener and resembles a concert experience. When watching movies on a screen between the speakers, on-screen dialogue and sounds are clearly separated from those off-screen. Center and side speakers are not missed as the two speakers alone render a smooth continuum."
Thats a kind and generous offer, if you can suffer the pain maybe you can coach me to do it, i have the programme just no idea what to do, my start point is to "simply" move the woofer upper end up to a point it fills the response trough i have.............
Now there we are at a loss! - i can take a full range measurement with REW, i can gate that afterwards, but individual drivers i have not done at all.....
The "magic" SL talks about sounds like the result of "constant directivity", something a good dipole has, but an OB, not necessarily 😉