The assumption seems that image "smearing" widens the image of individual sound "objects", is that the case or can the reverse also be true? What mechanism causes it in a DAC?
If you will take an opinion, I would say it is probably mostly due to jitter. Jitter can produce more than one possible audible symptom, it depends on the nature of the jitter, also on the jitter sensitivity of the particular dac architecture.
First of all, jitter can be deterministic or random. The random stuff is attributed to a few different mechanisms. There are books and articles on it going back many years. A couple of fairly recent brief articles: https://www.crystek.com/documents/appnotes/ImpactUltralow.pdf
https://www.crystek.com/documents/appnotes/SourcesOfPhaseNoiseAndJitterInOscillators.pdf
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Ok......wasn’t sure because it did touch on time smearing/dac filter choice etc. and I thought maybe said phase anomaly’s might give rise to a individual dac soundstage portrayal.
I suspect jitter would be too small an effect, but I don't know. I think Bill is right, image is determined by level and/or phase/timing. Say jitter or something else does cause it, would it be possible for the opposite effect to happen, ie a large/wide image becoming narrower?
Yes but maybe matching the recorded phase relationships as close to the original recording as possible during playback is important? In other words some dacs might screw around with phase more than others?
As I said yesterday I was demonstrated this stuff by the guys that invented it. The manipulations of phase and amplitude are large.
SuperPhat Spatializer [Analog Devices Wiki]
Yah, I had a tc electronics single rack effects unit on the digital side(forgot which model) and a aphex unit (analog) that also had some phase adjustments.
I know I didn’t like going heavy on one adjustment or another but I found most changes beneficial to the final mix.
Then a verification process would be the next order of business to see if your speculation can be confirmed or not.
There is a good book: Understanding Delta-Sigma Data Converters, 2nd Ed. (Wiley-IEEE Press)
Part of the table of contents attached below. Just an example, there are other publications that go into the technical effects. Of course, engineers usually don't get into resulting perceptual effects in books like the one mentioned.
EDIT: The only point here is that, yes, clocks are very high frequency, but none the less jitter can affect audio outputs.
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When it comes to timing anomalies that may effect imaging surely it's only an issue if it's between channels?
Maybe an effect is more-easily-noticed/audible if small timing variation is different between channels.
Since ITD is a method of image placement I don't think there is any maybe about it, so long as the timing variation is audible.
Making up events as you go, eh. That is unless you can quote at least 2 posts ("they" would mean more than 1) showing such thing.
No procedure to ensure the level match. Go figure.
Interesting article that popped up today, perhaps has something to do with matters of aural perception.
Living a Lie: We Deceive Ourselves to Better Deceive Others
“What’s so interesting is that we seem to intuitively understand that if we can get ourselves to believe something first, we’ll be more effective at getting others to believe it,” says William von Hippel, a psychologist at The University of Queensland, who co-authored the study. “So we process information in a biased fashion, we convince ourselves, and [then...] we convince others.”
"In real life ... you may be selling a used car or debating a tax policy or arguing for a promotion—cases in which you benefit not from gaining and presenting an accurate picture of reality but from convincing someone of a particular point of view."
So this is apparently as natural as the capacity for being deluded into thinking, feeling, hearing... What a mess. Build the whole receiver with "audiophile" solder and it sounds better than the same one built with ordinary solder. That may be, but how to separate out what someone is trying to convince you of? Measurement is one tool, albeit insensitive beyond some point to such things.
Living a Lie: We Deceive Ourselves to Better Deceive Others
“What’s so interesting is that we seem to intuitively understand that if we can get ourselves to believe something first, we’ll be more effective at getting others to believe it,” says William von Hippel, a psychologist at The University of Queensland, who co-authored the study. “So we process information in a biased fashion, we convince ourselves, and [then...] we convince others.”
"In real life ... you may be selling a used car or debating a tax policy or arguing for a promotion—cases in which you benefit not from gaining and presenting an accurate picture of reality but from convincing someone of a particular point of view."
So this is apparently as natural as the capacity for being deluded into thinking, feeling, hearing... What a mess. Build the whole receiver with "audiophile" solder and it sounds better than the same one built with ordinary solder. That may be, but how to separate out what someone is trying to convince you of? Measurement is one tool, albeit insensitive beyond some point to such things.
See, this is the thing with linking to stuff, you can find anything to support your arguement. 🙂 People will write "studies" on just about anything if it's part of their course, don't mean Jack **** to me 😀
Hehe, I don't see the point if we are talking about personal perceptions that is, at least you do how ever deluded I might perceive you to be I'm pretty sure you believe what you say, there is little reason for me to believe what is published about such things in university papers. I don't consider it as evidence I'm afraid, but I'm biased.
yah, I say some pretty ridiculous stuff at my own expense, it certainly isn't to gain popularity.....if i was looking for that id be on board with all ye naysayers and giving Mark a hard time!
for me it's about shared experiences and trying to figure out why such a small percentage coincide with mine.
for me it's about shared experiences and trying to figure out why such a small percentage coincide with mine.