Jumped! and a few crossover questions
While I have a few questions, I though I should introduce myself first, so...
I took the plunge 😀
Ordered a bunch of goodies off meniscus, now to source the rest!
To think, a month ago I had a dream. To start building a modest HiFi system... In typical fashion, I did the opposite of what I knew I should have done, start with the best speakers I could...
Problem is, its so long since I have heard what I consider HIFI, I forgot just how amazing it is...
For the last year or two I have been watching a popular youtube channel, Steve G, and have had my eyes on a pair of speakers reviewed by him and others as well...
Than may be 2 months ago he put out a video on how do you know if you have a true HIFI system...
As we all know perspective is everything, and Steve explains it as, If you find yourself listening to it all the time, staying up later than you should, may be getting to work late, not doing other things you know you should be, than you have a GREAT system.
If you have a system that you listen to only a few hours a week, well may be you need to work on it, and so on...
That was the push I needed... That HIFI might mean one thing to me, and another to you BUT If I truly am happy with it, its GOOD....
Figuring I should start small, just order the speakers I have heard almost all positive things about and the rest will simply have to follow.. Snowball down a mountain kind of thing....
Speakers arrived, than Turntable.. Than the phono preamp, tube amp, DAC, and so on...
The very first time I put a needle down on vinyl in over 20 years...
and instant BLISS.... Pure happiness.. Chills on a daily basis....
I remember the feeling I had the very first time I heard a CD (Peter Gabriel So!) wow! bright, crisp and so on, but... it was missing something ?
Thinking, ahhh may be the recording... May be that feeling of being enveloped by rich, warm sound wasnt really HIFI after all... May be this unreal ability of digital to reproduce the cleanest sound I ever heard is what HIFI is ??
So the ease and convenience of CD's took over. The music took on a new form, but I simply never forgot that rich warmth I never had from digital..
Now, a month later, probably 40 LP's new and old, the realization "I cant stop listening" has finally hit me... There is no doubt the starter speakers set the hook.
Back to step one... Focus on what I perceive is the weakest link in my system (and the purchase that started me down the rabbit hole) and go for it !
For 35 years I have always heard that speakers are the very most important part of any good system. I have no doubt that this is still true.
The YEARS that this project has gone through. The many audiophiles praise, the dedication of its creator and thousands of views, posts etc is telling me THIS IS THE ONE, DO IT... so I did...
I need to order up the components that make up the cross over, and my questions are.....
What does BOM stand for ? (google suggested base optimization module?)
Nomenclature, 7R5 to be sure, that's the same as 7.5 ohm ?
Does DCR mean Direct Current Resistance ?
Glenn
While I have a few questions, I though I should introduce myself first, so...
I took the plunge 😀
Ordered a bunch of goodies off meniscus, now to source the rest!
To think, a month ago I had a dream. To start building a modest HiFi system... In typical fashion, I did the opposite of what I knew I should have done, start with the best speakers I could...
Problem is, its so long since I have heard what I consider HIFI, I forgot just how amazing it is...
For the last year or two I have been watching a popular youtube channel, Steve G, and have had my eyes on a pair of speakers reviewed by him and others as well...
Than may be 2 months ago he put out a video on how do you know if you have a true HIFI system...
As we all know perspective is everything, and Steve explains it as, If you find yourself listening to it all the time, staying up later than you should, may be getting to work late, not doing other things you know you should be, than you have a GREAT system.
If you have a system that you listen to only a few hours a week, well may be you need to work on it, and so on...
That was the push I needed... That HIFI might mean one thing to me, and another to you BUT If I truly am happy with it, its GOOD....
Figuring I should start small, just order the speakers I have heard almost all positive things about and the rest will simply have to follow.. Snowball down a mountain kind of thing....
Speakers arrived, than Turntable.. Than the phono preamp, tube amp, DAC, and so on...
The very first time I put a needle down on vinyl in over 20 years...
and instant BLISS.... Pure happiness.. Chills on a daily basis....
I remember the feeling I had the very first time I heard a CD (Peter Gabriel So!) wow! bright, crisp and so on, but... it was missing something ?
Thinking, ahhh may be the recording... May be that feeling of being enveloped by rich, warm sound wasnt really HIFI after all... May be this unreal ability of digital to reproduce the cleanest sound I ever heard is what HIFI is ??
So the ease and convenience of CD's took over. The music took on a new form, but I simply never forgot that rich warmth I never had from digital..
Now, a month later, probably 40 LP's new and old, the realization "I cant stop listening" has finally hit me... There is no doubt the starter speakers set the hook.
Back to step one... Focus on what I perceive is the weakest link in my system (and the purchase that started me down the rabbit hole) and go for it !
For 35 years I have always heard that speakers are the very most important part of any good system. I have no doubt that this is still true.
The YEARS that this project has gone through. The many audiophiles praise, the dedication of its creator and thousands of views, posts etc is telling me THIS IS THE ONE, DO IT... so I did...
I need to order up the components that make up the cross over, and my questions are.....
What does BOM stand for ? (google suggested base optimization module?)
Nomenclature, 7R5 to be sure, that's the same as 7.5 ohm ?
Does DCR mean Direct Current Resistance ?
Glenn
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Home Depot has some very nice cabinet-grade plywood (usually in-stock, right next to their panel saw for "rips"). 🙂
MDF is
(..and the dust is particularly nasty to lungs.) 😱This stuff is the preferred baffle material (extremely hard/rigid):
Bamboo Wood, Solid Boards 1x12x48 (Carbonized / Dark) - Woodworkers Source
Home Depot has some very nice cabinet-grade plywood (usually in-stock, right next to their panel saw for "rips"). 🙂
MDF is
This stuff is the preferred baffle material (extremely hard/rigid):
Bamboo Wood, Solid Boards 1x12x48 (Carbonized / Dark) - Woodworkers Source
I'm going by today to see whats availabe. Would love to work with bamboo but the sides of the Elsinore are 15" and I only see 12" widths on the link.
The starnded or fossilized Bamboo Plywood (avoid the vertical and the horizontal should be ignored) is better than the solid. PlybooStrand Bamboo Plywood and Veneer | Plyboo
It is 4’ wide.
Careful detail in cuts and dadoes can be used to create an effect that looks like marquetry.
dave
It is 4’ wide.
Careful detail in cuts and dadoes can be used to create an effect that looks like marquetry.
dave
Should be able to throw that together before breakfast. 😱 Very cool stuff.
I think the biggest hangup on the Elsinore is the 1"/25mm material. Just not readily available even in my town of 250,000 people. I like to build something other than MDF and keep the finish natural and seal it. I've got enough black duratex speakers lying around to last me a while.
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Keep in mind that Joe has specified MDF (because proper ply is hard to get in Oz). 18mm quality plywood is actually a better, stiffer material than 25mm MDF.
If/when i build the Elsinores i will modify the cabinet to implement stuff i have found that improves cabinets. Adequately braced 18mm plywood should easily improve on the 25mm MDF specified box.
dave
Would you make adjustments for the internal volume? I know one builder on this thread that used material inside the cabinet to reduce to the correct volume after using 3/4" all the way around.
Internal volume should stay the same, but i would have no issues withe adjusting the tuning/vent to have a greater tolerance to dynamic changes in the T/S parameters one uses to tune the box. Also, given the variety of woofers used, some changes in box volume might be useful — not something i have looked at.
I do have my own design inspired partly by Joe’s choice of 4 woofers. That and a similar size box are the only real similarities. Althou i know it will sound good (i have the smaller pre-cursors in my living room).
dave
I do have my own design inspired partly by Joe’s choice of 4 woofers. That and a similar size box are the only real similarities. Althou i know it will sound good (i have the smaller pre-cursors in my living room).
dave
I should also mention that the starnded bamboo plywood is the best flat speaker building material i have used. My comments on 25 vrs 18mm were for generic quality plywood, the 18mm bamboo ply might actually have an equivalency with MDF thicker then 25mm.
It is fairly easy to adjust box to retain internal volume. One can shrink the outsides or one can retain the outsides (only the width is somewhat critical) and add extrabracing to eat up the extra volume created when the internal width increase by 14mm.
dave
It is fairly easy to adjust box to retain internal volume. One can shrink the outsides or one can retain the outsides (only the width is somewhat critical) and add extrabracing to eat up the extra volume created when the internal width increase by 14mm.
dave
If I'm calculating internal volume correctly, going 3/4" all the way around could be corrected by reducing the depth from 15" to 13". So for us in the US, total outside dimension would go from 11W x 15D x 44ish H to 11 x 13 x 44ish.
FYI these guys are among the best, several Boston area DIY'ers use them, they are set up to ship but don't know the rates. Several 25mm choices here.
https://www.boulterplywood.com/MultiLayerPlywood_4.htm
Yes. I took Grade 11 math instead of Grade 10 typing. At the time i thot… i’ll never have to type :^)
dave
Im working on trying to figure out which way is up, and at first thought this was exactly what I needed to understand...
But L2 for the SB17MFC35-8 speakers (according to Joe's page) is 1.0mH ?
Has this information been changed ?
Is Clausen using the older SB17NRXC35-8 speaker and I missed it ?
Disregard that last post!!! I see the Joe's responce was in 2015!
Sometimes Im my own worst enemy lol...
Sometimes Im my own worst enemy lol...
To be brief: I use MDF in my own Elsinores, I have to.
Think about it. I want those who drop in to hear them here, that they will know that even when using MDF they can sound that good. Not because of MDF, but in spite of MDF. That way I can only encourage others to build them, not discourage them. So I am stuck. I have to live with MDF while you guys have the freedom to use really good stuff. Good luck to you. Such is life.
That front 18mm part of the front panel: In my dreams, I see that CNC'd out of one single piece of aluminium and all the drivers bolted to it and the rest being still MDF - but it will have to remain a dream, sigh.
But even with humble MDF, the way the multiple pieces of the front panel comes together and the shaping of the final assembly, the ringing is very well controlled. Everything rings, but the shape has a huge influence, so if you use common sense and use materials that is at least as dense as MDF, you will get good results.
I am about to make a new pair for myself, I have found somebody who will make the boxes nicely, but again, I have to use MDF, for the reasons explained above. Others here is Sydney or nearby, will also be able to get the boxes made. I won't be a middle-man and I won't get a cut or kickback. The only thing I make a few bucks on is when you order the waveguides.
PS: Re Hamlets, hope to get the MFC drivers this week. My conscience is bothering me.
PPS: Some may heard about the weather we had after the fires (the colour of the air here in Sydney was at times almost impossible to decribe), we got the flooding rain and the water found its way into my soundroom and got told today they need to take out 20 square meters and replace. Life just keeps throwing up surprises. My son is also mentally ill (the "S" decease) and if you have been there, you know what havoc that can play.
PPS: I also have a paper to write and need to do so by the end of next month. So... Hamlets are still coming, I promise.
Think about it. I want those who drop in to hear them here, that they will know that even when using MDF they can sound that good. Not because of MDF, but in spite of MDF. That way I can only encourage others to build them, not discourage them. So I am stuck. I have to live with MDF while you guys have the freedom to use really good stuff. Good luck to you. Such is life.
That front 18mm part of the front panel: In my dreams, I see that CNC'd out of one single piece of aluminium and all the drivers bolted to it and the rest being still MDF - but it will have to remain a dream, sigh.
But even with humble MDF, the way the multiple pieces of the front panel comes together and the shaping of the final assembly, the ringing is very well controlled. Everything rings, but the shape has a huge influence, so if you use common sense and use materials that is at least as dense as MDF, you will get good results.
I am about to make a new pair for myself, I have found somebody who will make the boxes nicely, but again, I have to use MDF, for the reasons explained above. Others here is Sydney or nearby, will also be able to get the boxes made. I won't be a middle-man and I won't get a cut or kickback. The only thing I make a few bucks on is when you order the waveguides.
PS: Re Hamlets, hope to get the MFC drivers this week. My conscience is bothering me.
PPS: Some may heard about the weather we had after the fires (the colour of the air here in Sydney was at times almost impossible to decribe), we got the flooding rain and the water found its way into my soundroom and got told today they need to take out 20 square meters and replace. Life just keeps throwing up surprises. My son is also mentally ill (the "S" decease) and if you have been there, you know what havoc that can play.
PPS: I also have a paper to write and need to do so by the end of next month. So... Hamlets are still coming, I promise.
Attachments
It's not about aesthetics.
-you only need it on the front. It's because it's far more ridged: this tends to couple to the drivers better and produce a clearer response. This can be (and usually is) counter productive on the other panels of the loudspeaker.