What instrument, apart church organs (16Hz), goes under 40Hz ?
(the Low E string on a bass is vibrating at 41, not played so often, and can be heard by its harmonics, anyway, even on a smartphone speaker ;-)
Most of the vinyls are limited in the bass frequencies, during mastering, because the room they take in the groove. While many people enjoy the vinyl's sound.
Subwoofers why ? A normal "bass " speaker is able to go this low.
I don't understand this new controversy.
You can enjoy the physical impact of very low frequencies (on kick drums ?), but it is more an effect than a real musical need.
I wonder why some, here, try to contradict Mr. Marsh, whatever he says.
He use JBL M-2. Where are the "subwoofers" ?
Did I mention 40Hz? I asked about bass. How do you, T, get accurate, smooth bass in your room?
I think a couple of people need to read Earl's papers on multiple subwoofers! Unless of course they live in palaces with rooms that don't go modal until 30Hz 🙂
Note to TT: I like organ music!
Note to TT: I like organ music!
My main speakers alone were enough during decades (31cm or 36cm, high efficiency) . Now, I do have a BIG sub (46cm/18", high efficiency,down flat to 30Hz) , but it is for other reasons. Mostly because "I can" ;-)
Joke apart, it seems more important to me to can play 40Hz with enough power, than to go 20Hz, limited in max volume.
And the surface of 2X31cm is more than the one of a 46cm sub.
"Smooth" bass is the contrary of my target. I like the physical impact of kick drums.
All depend of the kind of music we listen to and our tastes.
Note that, in most traditional studios, main monitors do not goes so low,
https://images.reverb.com/image/upl...upersize/v1543112203/qe6tnhdk95zfp8ussqir.jpg
and little modern ones are worse, using proximity little monitors on the desk.
May-be the reason why many RAP records have an excess of basses (not enough in the speakers -> over mixed by the engineer).
Not to forget that our little listening rooms, in most of our homes, do not allow the natural expansion of low frequencies.
40 hz wavelength is around 8m50 or 337 inches.
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Around 70Hz? Is that above the modal region of your listening room in the Château?
If you’re ‘flat’ down to 40Hz it should be enough - organ music at 16 Hz would be an exception.
I will jimmy the rumble filter on my demo pre to 40 Hz to see what it does - won’t happen before end Feb though.
I will jimmy the rumble filter on my demo pre to 40 Hz to see what it does - won’t happen before end Feb though.
Do-we really "hear" 16 Hz ? It seems to me that is is more the physical effect on our bodies. Rare on earth, apart thunder or fireworks.
Headphones cannot provide the physical effect of low frequencies on our bodies, as good as they are ,as low as they can go, I always miss something with them. Not you ?
I agree. I said that also was why you needed the LF cut.
"But, still need a rumble filter for what junk was recorded."
-Richard
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It is not hard to do in my room. How? A good three-way system can usually do it. What is wrong with the JBL M2 in the bass ... not accurate enough for you?
??
And, have a very large listening room. My ceiling is sloped from 18 feet to 13 feet. About 15W X 30L
Now I am in Bangkok. I plan to use them in a large room used for music/video demos.
THx-RNMarsh
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I dont use a filter at all. I let the speaker cut-off take care of it. Was just saying with TT/LP systems it is much worse problem. But not for me. I dont have an LP system. But, when i did GD was always a problem and trade-off... another compromise.
I am so burnt out on the old Classical music. I listen to mostly blues which is close mic'ed. Not much of an issue for me. just trying to help out those using Lp as main source. I used to have LP/TT system and so I relate my experience from that time. I have not bought an LP in decades and gave away all my LP and TT, MC pre-pre etc a long time ago.
THx-RNMarsh
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Thank you, that explains it. For most of us in more average size rooms, subwoofers are a real advantage and not just below 40Hz.
A real disappointment, that app. It's never identified anything I've asked it to...
Seems to only get the easy stuff....
i am happy you finally found your answere. For myself. Subs are never needed for music in any typical or average size room. Just muddies up the sound. They cant do what a proper size room can do for bass. Even with multiple subs all around. But thats just my experience talking.
When I was poor, back in the day, my typical rented track house living room was not big enough. I moved the stereo and a sofa in the 2-1/2 car garage. larger volume and I could treat it with batting on walls. throw rug on floor. Voila. A dedicated large size listening room.
THx-RNMarsh
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Then some of us have been known to knock out a wall or significant bits of it to improve the listening area. A bit more work than tweaking a simulated amplifier design. But more of an improvement than that.
Next we could talk about ambient noise levels and actual signal to noise!
Next we could talk about ambient noise levels and actual signal to noise!
Most all full range (20-20k) speakers are 3-ways......so a 2-way with subs is just that, no?
It’s all in the implementation.......when it’s blended correctly (dsp) you can’t tell the sub is there, well except for all that extra realism! 😛
It’s all in the implementation.......when it’s blended correctly (dsp) you can’t tell the sub is there, well except for all that extra realism! 😛
Mostly Yes.
easier said than done. You can get a smooth looking freq with multiple bass (I dont call them Sub bass... thats for Effects channel) but if you care about clarity, it is another story.
All-in-All, just get the room out of the picture... listen near-field.
Works better and costs a lot less than more bass speakers and amps.
-RNM
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