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6.8.2 Precision Listening Rooms page 140
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Is that based on theory or on blind listening tests?
Can you give a link to a scientific paper?
Can you give a link to a scientific paper?
Blind listening should be useful in differentiating two products that are described as radically different in sound, but this does not correspond to measurement.
I think we all hear and measure differences by changing acoustic parameters in the room ...
I try to understand where I want to go ...
possibly with closed eyes (YouTube)
I think we all hear and measure differences by changing acoustic parameters in the room ...
I try to understand where I want to go ...
possibly with closed eyes (YouTube)
Buy this book, read this book put it on your shelf. Each section is backed up with of footnotes that point to Audio Engineering Society research papers.
Thanks DT
I casually have tested like this before, putting small speakers on the main speakers, then sending 10-100ms delayed signal to them. I was not really convinced, but it may work well in other circumstances.
I also tested back fired tweeter, but now I only remember I just didn't like it for some reasons... I may try it again sometime.
Doug Jones is talking there about listening rooms as tools. Rooms for hearing exactly what is in your mix and nothing more. He says a room like that should be dry but still subjectively pleasing to the listener. Unfortunately he repeats the old wives tale of how horrible anechoic chambers are for listening. I've been there, done that, it's not so bad, just a little flat.
That brings us to the subject of what do you want in your listening room? Do you want the dry audio precision that is like big headphones? Or do you want to spread things out a little more like what you'd hear in a normal environment - with he risk of coloring the sound?
My experience with anechoic and hypo-echoic playback is that the soundstage rarely extends past the speakers to the left and right, but can extend back a long way - even on mono recordings. Sometimes it will extend forward of the speaker, but not much. If some of those are artifacts of the room, as Jones says, do you want them or not?
I do want them to some extent. I find headphone listening to be un-involving, and not just because of the HRTF. But I'd like the room artifacts not to be too "one note" sounding always the same, coloring every recording the same. Bad acoustics will do that. Good playback acoustics should enhance the sound a little, flesh it out, without being obvious. Good acoustics help the illusion of space and postion.
I agree with Pano. It’s all depend on the goal.
I have 2 different rooms, very live and dead, and listen to the music in both rooms everyday. One is a very reflective large living room with wooden floor, and the other is double walled studio environment built in the garage with literally truck load of OC 703 and 20 feet+ diffusers. The studio is like a huge headphone as Pano say, it's very microscopic about detail and low frequency is super tight. Living room is horrible about the bass response and detail, but very forgiving overall, so I can simply enjoy music without thinking about the equipment nor sound quality of the material.
I can’t say which I prefer for Jazz and Pop, but I think I can say I prefer the sound of living room for classical music.
I have 2 different rooms, very live and dead, and listen to the music in both rooms everyday. One is a very reflective large living room with wooden floor, and the other is double walled studio environment built in the garage with literally truck load of OC 703 and 20 feet+ diffusers. The studio is like a huge headphone as Pano say, it's very microscopic about detail and low frequency is super tight. Living room is horrible about the bass response and detail, but very forgiving overall, so I can simply enjoy music without thinking about the equipment nor sound quality of the material.
I can’t say which I prefer for Jazz and Pop, but I think I can say I prefer the sound of living room for classical music.
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Pano,
For those that did not read this chapter on small rooms. The author discusses different types of listening rooms.
Critical listening rooms, you sum them up as “anechoic and hypo-echoic”. Rooms for hearing exactly what is in your mix and nothing more.
Rooms for entertainment, not the dry critical room, this type of room accepts or even welcomes room artifacts and treatments to “enhance the sound a little, flesh it out, without being obvious. Good acoustics help the illusion of space and postion”.
I just wanted to clear up that the author does not advocate for only one type of room in the chapter.
Thanks DT
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When I tried an excess of absorbency in my room, I got a bad listen.
Perhaps it is too easy to break down mid-highs, and this produces tonal alterations. This is evident in the video I posted in #104.
In tiny rooms, in a few ms, you'll have multiple reflections.
Perhaps DIffusion Close to the Source can help. I have the acronym tonight. I'll try a test tomorrow.
Perhaps it is too easy to break down mid-highs, and this produces tonal alterations. This is evident in the video I posted in #104.
In tiny rooms, in a few ms, you'll have multiple reflections.
Perhaps DIffusion Close to the Source can help. I have the acronym tonight. I'll try a test tomorrow.
sounds good: YouTube
Is this studio scattering early reflections while allowing higher dB late reflections to give "body" to the sound?
Yes, yes for sure. He talks about several types of rooms. He does include listening spaces for home audio.
Thanks you for those links and your thread. I've seen that site before.
You haven't experimented with anything more lightweight that could be hung on a wall?
My room is quite small and I listen nearfield, I've thought of books emulating the geometry of a diffuser and delayed ambience speakers.
Did you try angling them towards the ceiling? I'll experiment, I have all I need to get an idea if it works for me, so, no loss 🙂
Yamaha has been doing ambience channels since the 80s. I have a stand alone processor that does 4 channels and a Yamaha 7.1 HT receiver that can generate them. Two of the ambience channels are meant to go behind the speakers and provide some depth. Works well enough if you tweak the setting right.
In my room, it's more an issue of not enough available surface area to use effective diffusors. Other than the bookcases that are already there,. Fireplace, speakers against wall (designed for that),
From what I understand (which is limited, not being an acoustician or having figured my way through any of the math involving diffusion), the source and the listener both need to be some distance away from a diffusor for it to be effective. For diffusors that work down to midrange, something like 4 or 5 feet are usually mentioned.
I angled the sub speakers in several different ways including face up, but I was not very serious about it when I was doing. I think you could do it better than me. 🙂
This type of side wall treatment is cheap & easy way to prevent the early reflection from hitting to your ears directly. I did similar treatment for a part of my room (not horizontal, vertical).
I'm reading Toole about early reflections at the moment......seems you can find anything you want to believe!
Well sorta kinda yeah and no. 😀
The circle of confusion still exists, but there is a way out.
Done.
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