That's not the point. It's when you think that decision is not ethical that the trouble starts. Different can be off putting - wrong gets under most people's skin.
I first became vegetarian in the 80s. I remember people, rather aggressively, telling me many things that I just don't hear anymore. Things like wondering if animals have real feelings. Or that it's some kind of religion. Or that we are meant to eat meat. Or asking if Id eat an animal that was already dead like roadkill. I had a man tell me only Eastern people could be vegetarian. I had a Japanese doctor say only Western people could be vegetarian! Had plenty of people ask worriedly about where I would get enough protein.
But its 2018. There are tons of Vegans these days. Its not like its unusual. I just typed 'vegan restaurant' in yelp. There are over 100 around me(got tired of checking more!). I assume many are just 'vegan friendly' but still. I even have a great vegan ice cream and vegan pizza joint nearby. Both packed. And lets not forget the rather huge list of studies on the environmental impact to our world. I think the question these days is more "why do you choose to eat animals when you don't need to?"
But its 2018. There are tons of Vegans these days. Its not like its unusual. I just typed 'vegan restaurant' in yelp. There are over 100 around me(got tired of checking more!). I assume many are just 'vegan friendly' but still. I even have a great vegan ice cream and vegan pizza joint nearby. Both packed. And lets not forget the rather huge list of studies on the environmental impact to our world. I think the question these days is more "why do you choose to eat animals when you don't need to?"
It's also frustratingly hip and trendy to be so (bandwagon effect), at least among my age and younger, and the cities I've lived in. It gets annoyingly bootstrapped onto the hipster schtick. Then again so does every @#%^# trendy diet, so no specific bus thrown here! I just like food.
I generally just consider it a challenge to host someone who's vegan. Not in a bad way, just having to think differently about what I'm cooking and try to make something new (my vegan friends are quite the gracious lot, though, so it's not a big deal).
Definitely think we as the west (and especially the US/Canada) eat way too much animal protein regardless of whether one abstains entirely or not.
I generally just consider it a challenge to host someone who's vegan. Not in a bad way, just having to think differently about what I'm cooking and try to make something new (my vegan friends are quite the gracious lot, though, so it's not a big deal).
Definitely think we as the west (and especially the US/Canada) eat way too much animal protein regardless of whether one abstains entirely or not.
It is annoying that the trend mongers have seen it as an opportunity to cash in with inflated prices, inevitable I suppose. Although, do the prices of alternatives, I mean things like alternative cheese and milk and mayonnaise etc, I haven't tried buying any meat substitutes, only seem inflated compared to the relatively cheap price of the animal products.
That's probably because they wanted to know why you don't eat meat, that's all, I think it's interesting to know why people come to certain decisions. I was interested to know why Pano is repulsed by meat but not meat textured fish
, the fact that he himself doesn't know doesn't make it any less interesting to me I did not even consider being vegan or vegetarian - but I do recognize the problems with modern lifestyles and the way we produce food today. So in general, for several - I believe sensible reasons - I only eat a smaller amount of meat and way more vegetables and seeds.
Processed food are in my view - food that are produced with a different goal than nutrition - namely profit.
When you yourself control the process of buying the raw products and making the food on your own. Your not only controlling the amount of sugar, salt and fat - but you also do not need to put in chemicals to prolong shelf life, like in most processed foods.
I grew up with homemade food and mostly real homemade vegetables and meat from animals living way more freely and stressless than what we mostly find today. The first time I tasted eggs and bread somewhere else, I was extremely disappointed. It was no where close to what I grew up with. Alone the difference in color of the egg was immense.
I try to find a sensible balance between eating healthy and not being manic about food. So I can eat most types of food - but I politely reduce my intake, if not of marginal quality when eating out.
I see no other option than taking personal responsibility for what I eat - to have at least a better chance of quality of life and optimum health.
So I try to be a political user, that simply do not try to buy anything that I do not want to support.
I'd rather eat raw salad one evening than buying a pizza - but I also do not feel that it is wrong to use a little meat the day after, for a little flavor and protein balance.
Processed food are in my view - food that are produced with a different goal than nutrition - namely profit.
When you yourself control the process of buying the raw products and making the food on your own. Your not only controlling the amount of sugar, salt and fat - but you also do not need to put in chemicals to prolong shelf life, like in most processed foods.
I grew up with homemade food and mostly real homemade vegetables and meat from animals living way more freely and stressless than what we mostly find today. The first time I tasted eggs and bread somewhere else, I was extremely disappointed. It was no where close to what I grew up with. Alone the difference in color of the egg was immense.
I try to find a sensible balance between eating healthy and not being manic about food. So I can eat most types of food - but I politely reduce my intake, if not of marginal quality when eating out.
I see no other option than taking personal responsibility for what I eat - to have at least a better chance of quality of life and optimum health.
So I try to be a political user, that simply do not try to buy anything that I do not want to support.
I'd rather eat raw salad one evening than buying a pizza - but I also do not feel that it is wrong to use a little meat the day after, for a little flavor and protein balance.
I really have to wonder, which planet do you live on? You paint a very rosy picture of modern industrial-scale profit-driven farming.
As to your suggestion that I eat meat but not dairy products - well, for myself, the main point of being a vegan is not to be personally responsible, as far as possible, for the exploitation/suffering/destruction of animals.
I'm sorry you think my attitude is counterproductive and self-righteous. I am aware that many people see vegans in this way, and as a rule don't go around trying to persuade others to become vegan. But given that the subject cropped up in DIYA, I decided to put forward my personal view and experience.
Of course we all have to make our own ethical decisions. There are, however, certain norms which I guess are accepted by most of humanity. To take an extreme example, I can't imagine there are many people who regard murder as anything other than wrong. The ethical argument against murder is pretty watertight and, I hope, self-evident.
The ethical case for veganism is, I believe, similarly watertight. It can be summed up (for myself) thus: given that it is now common knowledge that a vegan way of life is perfectly feasible, surely it is incumbent on us all to adopt a way of life (veganism) that minimises the exploitation and suffering of other sentient beings. What possible ethical justification is there for anything else?
My hope is that in time the ethical case for veganism will be seen to be as watertight and self-evident as the ethical case against murder. There is still a very long way to go. When I became a Vegan Society member, there were probably only a few hundred vegans in the UK (based on what I know about Society membership at the time). The Society has conducted polls for some years under the auspices of Ipsos Mori, and over the last four years it appears that the number of vegans in the UK has doubled twice. I know that the field of statistics is fraught with difficulties (as evidenced in DIYA), but the number of adult vegans in the UK now stands at around 600,000. A chink of light in a cruel world.
Sorry if this all appears self-righteous again. Matt, what can I do to make it appear less so?
I farmed sheep and cattle for 25 years so perhaps I have some insight into the matter. I can assure you that the vast majority of farmers treat their animals kindly and extremely well .I have been to see my animals slaughtered [abattoirs encourage this] and have no trouble with the way they meet their end.Most of us will die far more stressful and less humane dearth.
All my animals were free range pasture fed.
Yes there is some industrial type farming [pork and chicken mostly] but consumers can choose alternatives .As I do.it is not that hard.
There is a lot of deliberate misinformation and propaganda surrounding animal farming.May I suggest you get out a bit more and .perhaps visit and talk to some farmers.
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My wish would be that vegans, especially the activists would focus their energy and I'm certain their good intent on what I see as the most important thing, that is, unnecessary suffering. Accusing people of torture, murder and rape is never going to help in my view, since the reality is that it's a numbers game, which I've alluded to in the philosophical papers. I seriously believe that it is a good thing that farm animals can have a good life, that is what I would like to see more of.
Unnecessary suffering is one thing, but imagine the amount of suffering that would occur if the health of the planet would continue to degrade at the rate it has in the last 50 years. Life on planet Earth could change dramatically for every living thing.
For sure. The best thing anyone can do is not reproduce, it's a tricky thing to ask though since it's a major part of life.
The best thing anyone can do is change their eating habits.
Roughly nearly 8 billion people on the planet VS 56 billion animals farmed and slaughtered annually, its really no comparison to say that the breeding of humans is the problem. Its their habits that are the problem.
its not just eating habits, its consumption habits, consumption of stuff, Hi Fi stuff included....the best..the newest... the latest tweeter from (insert any brand here) et al https://www.footprintnetwork.org/
Agreed - the world is not black and white - but way more colorful
Extremism is not good.- Status
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