We are not meant to be anything, you have a choice (depending on availability) from a survival point of view it tastes good because it's good food. Sugar tastes really good, because it's really good food
Ha, no way. It was per diem and make your own way. There is always somewhere to eat in France, but vegan choices were super limited. By the time we went to the Soviet Union for 2 months, I was eating fish. Good thing, too. It was mostly fish and potatoes every day. The few vegivores on the crew were having a hard time.
I remember some stage hands in early 90s griping about being on Paul McCartney's WINGS tour, were all the catering was veggie. Damn! Sign me up! That would have been heaven.
I don't eat meat because I find it revolting. I like animals OK, but yuck! I don't like them enough to eat them. Creeps me out.
I'm opposed to speciesism if it means that only humans deserve moral consideration.
Singer made the point that it's structurally similar to sexism and racism - "Group X does not deserve consideration because they are dissimilar to MY group", when the dissimilarity to group X is not morally relevant.
However, I'm very cautious about casual or overuse of that analogy. You can believe that speciesism is real and still believe that human suffering has different 'dimensions'. Hammering on the comparison with other 'isms' makes it way too easy to be misunderstood as saying that, e.g. the crimes suffered by a broiler hen and a slave are equivalent. And in making that structural comparison, the ongoing agency and struggle by humans subject to the other types of prejudices is omitted (animals do resist their mistreatment, but not in a way I can think of as comparable!).
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We always get fed first on the airplane too (and often better than than the carnies)!
It's nonsensical, really. I never was too creeped out by eating fish, which is why I went back to it as a convenience. Fish was the only animal protein I missed when I was vegan. Though there is a lot of fish that is too "meaty" for me like grouper or swordfish which I never eat - and any of it can make me feel uncomfortable from time to time. Just one of those things.
All these different aspects and thoughts about the subject fascinate me. In this world where only extreme views/statements are noticed I feel I understand why so often veganism is perceived as confrontational, I wish it wasn't. I'm so glad Earl is here I wonder/hope that the silent majority of vegans are making small differences here and there without feeling they have to change the world and be radical. I mean change it into a vegan world. Personally I find the activists a serious turn off
I wonder/hope that the silent majority of vegans are making small differences here and there without feeling they have to change the world and be radical. I mean change it into a vegan world. Personally I find the activists a serious turn off
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Scott, I think it is perceived as confrontational because a small percent of Vegan people are very in-your-face confrontational.
I have seen this personally, and such people tend to dominate any conversation in a militaristic manner.
How many people who are BBQ enthusiasts try to shame vegans because they don't consume pork? Not many I bet, and none that I have been around at BBQ cookoff's and other gatherings.
But there are certainly a large number of vegans who consider it their responsibility to convince the rest of the world that the rest of the world are wrong.
I have seen this personally, and such people tend to dominate any conversation in a militaristic manner.
How many people who are BBQ enthusiasts try to shame vegans because they don't consume pork? Not many I bet, and none that I have been around at BBQ cookoff's and other gatherings.
But there are certainly a large number of vegans who consider it their responsibility to convince the rest of the world that the rest of the world are wrong.
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The Vegan Society have this on their agenda, I find their literature self righteous, judgemental and probably counterproductive, I've told them as much, and they asked me what they could add to improve their communication, I have replied that I think they should remove certain phrases, I doubt I will get a response since they specifically asked me about additions
If I'm not wrong we had fish together.
I lived in Cambridge MA for 50yr. so I have been around every food movement imaginable and in general we all get along. This thread is interesting even though some of the nit picking comments are familiar (such as cooking is processing). I think things could move forward more productively without rigid dogma. We have the Tom Brady diet too!
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I am amazed that the subject of veganism has cropped up on DIYA.
I have been a vegan for about 45 years and a vegetarian for a few years before that.
Originally I became a vegetarian because I had some vague notion that I did not want to be responsible for the slaughter of animals.
What changed things for me was a leaflet I found in an alternative bookstore on the Archway Road (in north London) written by the then secretary of the Vegan Society, Kathleen Jannaway, entitled "What happens to the calf?". A cow has to give birth to a calf once a year in order to produce milk, and the calf is taken away from its mother after a few days. Some calves are slaughtered at this point, some are reared for a while on a milk substitute made from dried milk and oil. Virtually all the male calves are slaughtered young; some of the females will be kept for future milk production, some slaughtered along with their brothers. Cows produce up to 10 times more milk than they would naturally due to the concentrated feeds and mechanical milking. After around 5 or 6 years they are not surprisingly exhausted; milk yields fall and they are sent off to the slaughterhouse. The natural lifespan of a cow is around 20-25 years.
I was shocked by the fact that the dairy and beef industries are at best different sides of the same coin; one cannot have one without the other. Vegetarians really are kidding themselves if they are vegetarian because of some concern about animal welfare. The next morning after seeing Kathleen Jannaway's leaflet I became a vegan. I don't wish to appear smug, I certainly don't go round confronting non-vegans, but I have to say that it is a relief to me that for most of my adult life I have not had the deaths and suffering of animals on my conscience.
The facts really do beg the question of non-vegans: since it is perfectly possible to live on a vegan diet, why are you not a vegan? Why do you insist on consuming animal products despite the (now) common knowledge of the mistreatment of animals that that consumption entails? Is it the taste you crave? What is wrong with you people, are you incapable of making an ethical decision? The ability to make ethical choices is one of the things that differentiates us humans from the rest of the animal kingdom. Use that ability and make that ethical choice!
I have been a vegan for about 45 years and a vegetarian for a few years before that.
Originally I became a vegetarian because I had some vague notion that I did not want to be responsible for the slaughter of animals.
What changed things for me was a leaflet I found in an alternative bookstore on the Archway Road (in north London) written by the then secretary of the Vegan Society, Kathleen Jannaway, entitled "What happens to the calf?". A cow has to give birth to a calf once a year in order to produce milk, and the calf is taken away from its mother after a few days. Some calves are slaughtered at this point, some are reared for a while on a milk substitute made from dried milk and oil. Virtually all the male calves are slaughtered young; some of the females will be kept for future milk production, some slaughtered along with their brothers. Cows produce up to 10 times more milk than they would naturally due to the concentrated feeds and mechanical milking. After around 5 or 6 years they are not surprisingly exhausted; milk yields fall and they are sent off to the slaughterhouse. The natural lifespan of a cow is around 20-25 years.
I was shocked by the fact that the dairy and beef industries are at best different sides of the same coin; one cannot have one without the other. Vegetarians really are kidding themselves if they are vegetarian because of some concern about animal welfare. The next morning after seeing Kathleen Jannaway's leaflet I became a vegan. I don't wish to appear smug, I certainly don't go round confronting non-vegans, but I have to say that it is a relief to me that for most of my adult life I have not had the deaths and suffering of animals on my conscience.
The facts really do beg the question of non-vegans: since it is perfectly possible to live on a vegan diet, why are you not a vegan? Why do you insist on consuming animal products despite the (now) common knowledge of the mistreatment of animals that that consumption entails? Is it the taste you crave? What is wrong with you people, are you incapable of making an ethical decision? The ability to make ethical choices is one of the things that differentiates us humans from the rest of the animal kingdom. Use that ability and make that ethical choice!
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