I totally agree.
I finally received my ES9028Q2M box from MSHOW Audio Shop in China. It does not include a power supply. I pressed the 12V/3A power brick from the Topping VX1 power amp into service. I just watched HULU movie for the last half hour. It is quiet and has good sound stage. The 120 dB volume control is very nice. But the Apple Remote does not work yet. I will try pairing tomorrow.
ES9038 ES9038Q2M DAC Decoder board Support IIS DSD DOP 384KHz with Amanero USB | eBay
When I start the mod in the next few days, I probably will start a new "Chinese ES9083Q2M board" for the budget, mid-Fi mods.
congrats with new object for audio investigations!
mine was working instantly. in fact the IR receiver board responds also to Onkyo remote, erratic though. anyway, what pairing can be done with an IR remote?
The NDK clocks are well known and a good one can be excellent. However, they do not test them all down to 10Hz or 1Hz, so you take your chances if you buy one. There is another thread here on DIYAudio for a group buy of the oscillators. In that thread there are reports of some bad ones that don't perform as well as most. Some people report getting a few of the bad ones, IIRC.
Also, the SD suffix are not the lowest jitter type. Please see the low and ultra-low jitter NDK clock listings here: Crystal Clock Oscillators / NDK
The lowest jitter clocks they make have the SDA suffix but are not available above 50MHz.
Anyway, if one can afford to take a chance on getting a bad one, they can be excellent and very low-cost. They are very small, of course, so soldering to them is similar to working with other tiny SMD parts. Some people don't seem to want to get into that.
Also, the SD suffix are not the lowest jitter type. Please see the low and ultra-low jitter NDK clock listings here: Crystal Clock Oscillators / NDK
The lowest jitter clocks they make have the SDA suffix but are not available above 50MHz.
Anyway, if one can afford to take a chance on getting a bad one, they can be excellent and very low-cost. They are very small, of course, so soldering to them is similar to working with other tiny SMD parts. Some people don't seem to want to get into that.
I just ordered a NDK SDA clock the day before yesterday. I choose the 49,152 MHz type. I will use the DAC with 96kHz SW upsampling, so I think this frequency might be OK - or any concerns?
I am planning to stick some self adhesive copper film stripes onto the board where the clock is placed right now to enlarge the solder points to the center Point of the current clock area.
I am planning to stick some self adhesive copper film stripes onto the board where the clock is placed right now to enlarge the solder points to the center Point of the current clock area.
Apple Remote pairing
I may also need a flesh battery, but do not have one on hand.
According to the seller's auction post, the Apple Remote has many modes. Hold the menu and big circle bottom for 6 seconds while pointing to the IR receiver should pair them. I may have to try several times before it works according to the seller. Wish me luck.
I may also need a flesh battery, but do not have one on hand.
Some other clock choices? Any suggestions?
C3391-100.000 Crystek Corporation | Mouser Europe
EMRA36M2H-100.000M Ecliptek | Mouser Europe
SiT8209AI-21-33S-100.000000X SiTime | Mouser Europe
C3391-100.000 Crystek Corporation | Mouser Europe
EMRA36M2H-100.000M Ecliptek | Mouser Europe
SiT8209AI-21-33S-100.000000X SiTime | Mouser Europe
Sounds like it should work. Please let us know how your project turns out.
I would probably not use any of the clocks mentioned. If considering a particular clock there are a couple of things for look for on the data sheet.
(1) Clocks that are good for use with audio DACs are usually classified as
Ultra-Low Jitter. It often will say that somewhere on the data sheet.
(2) With the exception of the NDK clocks, all the other good audio DAC clocks I know of are specified for dB of jitter at various low Offset Frequencies. There is usually a little table or list in the data sheet that lists frequency offset and a dB number. The lower the number the better. They will all be negative numbers such as -80dB or -160dB. The best audio DACs usually are specified at offset frequencies down to 10Hz, some are even specified at as low as 1Hz.
On the other hand, standard clocks are not usually specified at all for offset performance below 10kHz. Standard type clocks generally should be avoided for audio DAC use.
Some clocks are specified down to 1kHz but that isn't really low enough to help predict good audio sound quality. Usually the reason the clocks are not specified at lower frequencies is because the numbers quickly start looking increasingly poor as frequency goes down. It is curve that looks a lot like 1/f noise that increases rapidly below some corner frequency.
Again, the NDK clocks they classify as ultra-low jitter or low-jitter are not specified at low offset frequencies but they usually perform exceptionally well there, I guess NDK may not want to test them or otherwise appear to guarantee jitter performance. Or as I mentioned previously, I think there is another thread here somewhere in the forum about the clocks and, IIRC, people do report getting a few bad ones in a reel.
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If using NDK, buy multiple. They are very, very small and difficult to handle if you are not skilled with smd (imo).
The Crystek C3391 and C3392 is a good inexpensive choice. I think AMB.org for instance has used it in the past (and they're engineers all the way). There may even be feedback here if you search.
I'm far from a clock expert but the posts I've read from those who are advocate taking published phase plots with a grain of salt. I think we should be exploring more than just NDK and pricey Crysteks. The Fox Xpresso is also a very nice inexpensive clock. They are now owned by IDT but still available. Their phase numbers aren't amazing but I've used them multiple times and they sound great, especially for the money.
The Crystek C3391 and C3392 is a good inexpensive choice. I think AMB.org for instance has used it in the past (and they're engineers all the way). There may even be feedback here if you search.
I'm far from a clock expert but the posts I've read from those who are advocate taking published phase plots with a grain of salt. I think we should be exploring more than just NDK and pricey Crysteks. The Fox Xpresso is also a very nice inexpensive clock. They are now owned by IDT but still available. Their phase numbers aren't amazing but I've used them multiple times and they sound great, especially for the money.
It depends on the particular phase noise a clock produces. There have been some clocks with other than the lowest jitter numbers that some people seem to like.
It could be that some types of jitter are more euphonic, or pleasant sounding, than others. Perhaps somewhat analogous to harmonic distortion. Low order distortion sounds better than high order and some people like a little 2nd harmonic in their amplifier, or whatever.
However, the way I look at it is I want good measurements and good sound. I don't want euphonic distortion. To me distortion is still distortion and it interferes with me hearing what is really on a recording. I want to hear it like it was intended to sound and how it is, and how it sounded in the mastering room. Other people may have other preferences and that's fine.
I would just say if considering going for a colored sound, probably wise to make sure you really like that color because you will be hearing a lot of it. Also, people with some experience with, and a preference for a slightly colored sound usually know to keep the amount of color small.
For example if one looks at the list of recommended DACs, or, say, amplifiers, at Stereophille, one can see they don't all sound the same. Some are more accurate than others, but if you look at the measurements of the recommended products they all measure well. In other words, the amount of color is audible, but small. Otherwise a little too much euphonic distortion starts producing too much unpleasant side-effects. At some point the bad effects start increasing faster than the good effects.
It could be that some types of jitter are more euphonic, or pleasant sounding, than others. Perhaps somewhat analogous to harmonic distortion. Low order distortion sounds better than high order and some people like a little 2nd harmonic in their amplifier, or whatever.
However, the way I look at it is I want good measurements and good sound. I don't want euphonic distortion. To me distortion is still distortion and it interferes with me hearing what is really on a recording. I want to hear it like it was intended to sound and how it is, and how it sounded in the mastering room. Other people may have other preferences and that's fine.
I would just say if considering going for a colored sound, probably wise to make sure you really like that color because you will be hearing a lot of it. Also, people with some experience with, and a preference for a slightly colored sound usually know to keep the amount of color small.
For example if one looks at the list of recommended DACs, or, say, amplifiers, at Stereophille, one can see they don't all sound the same. Some are more accurate than others, but if you look at the measurements of the recommended products they all measure well. In other words, the amount of color is audible, but small. Otherwise a little too much euphonic distortion starts producing too much unpleasant side-effects. At some point the bad effects start increasing faster than the good effects.
All true. The thing is, unless you get the phase plot for the clock you purchased or purchased it from someone who has tested it for you, you really don't know what you're getting. Could be better, could be worse. I mentioned the Crystek process improvement in an earlier post. Supposedly the 575 now have even better performance than published - but they never updated the sheet. And unless you request those plots you won't know.
I agree on your guideline of focusing on specs that mention low jitter as a starting point, but beyond that it's either get them measured, spend $$$$ on specialized, or just try different ones and pick you like best.
Former member Jocko Homo (now of diyhifi.org) was selling sorted and personally tested NDKs for a little while. I don't know if he still is. If getting the best and trusted measurements for an XO is a priority, he'd be the first person I would contact.
You seem to say that oscillator does not have adequate spec for proper DAC use?
I am confused. If you buy major brand, can you expect the product to meet their minimum spec before they release it to distributors. I expect that to be the case from Mouser, DigiKey etc. The only problem I encountered is their minimum purchase requirement for certain parts and the shipping cost for small quantity.
A big audio company can request special screening process for tighter spec for their delivery, but it would cost them big time. It is somewhat similar to the mil spec parts, which practically disappeared from the market. Most manufacturer do have product in different lower grades. Industrial grade is batter and more expensive than commercial grade. Buyer can specify what they want to order. Many of the times, distributor only has the commercial grade product in stock. A fair large minimum quantity will be in place if your order needs special production run.
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