I've also been looking for bass options for the PR170 MO!
It is a pretty high eff driver and padding it down a bit (3 - 6dB) will open up a lot more options for bass. Would you consider this?
As well, does it have to be a 15", how about a 12" if it meets your low freq requirements?
PR170MO info:
There's some bass drivers listed in the crossovers:
Here's some more thoughts:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...-selection-15-inch-woofer-98db-eff-print.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/55299-pr170m0-appreciation-club-questions-6-print.html
Cheers,
Jeff
It is a pretty high eff driver and padding it down a bit (3 - 6dB) will open up a lot more options for bass. Would you consider this?
As well, does it have to be a 15", how about a 12" if it meets your low freq requirements?
PR170MO info:
There's some bass drivers listed in the crossovers:
Here's some more thoughts:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...-selection-15-inch-woofer-98db-eff-print.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/55299-pr170m0-appreciation-club-questions-6-print.html
Cheers,
Jeff
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OP already said he'd re-use some Omega 15 pro and try simming some 200 liter boxes, ref: post #10.
Regarding sensitivity, I spent about two years trying to break 100db/w 40hz-10khz in 300-340 liters per channel, had to give up and go for 100db/2.83v in 4 ohm instead. But I got more low end than anticipated though, not more spl, but lower frequency response.
Not realistic getting more than 96db/w (as in 1 actual watt!) from any single driver. Multiple drivers, sure. Big horns, sure. No free lunch.
Regarding sensitivity, I spent about two years trying to break 100db/w 40hz-10khz in 300-340 liters per channel, had to give up and go for 100db/2.83v in 4 ohm instead. But I got more low end than anticipated though, not more spl, but lower frequency response.
Not realistic getting more than 96db/w (as in 1 actual watt!) from any single driver. Multiple drivers, sure. Big horns, sure. No free lunch.
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assuming the amplifier has some power and not fleawatt nor typcial SET, an assisted 6th order BR with woofer having qts ~0.31
Yes ... getting close to 100 dbw out of a direct radiator below 80 Hz in anything other than a horn loaded alignment is tricky. I have done so, but it took a purpose built 18 inch coax to do it.... enter the P-Audio 18CX38.
A cute balance of QE, QM, FS, Xmax and SD. Clean up to 2K on the woofer... and luckily the 3" HF section can play nicely into the 750 Hz region, and all the way up to 18.7K! I mean flat. No crossover heroics.
So, nice seamless cross over right in the frequency range where the ear is deaf to location. (750-1,250 HZ)
This driver trues out at 98.7... at 230 Hz. A slight rise above that. This driver, (unfortunately) other than special order ($50K anyone) is no longer in production.
A sad situation.... I utilitizized the this drivers special aspects in a Open Baffle format at RMAF in 2012? Don't recall if the year is correct, attended several years running about then. Displayed in the show a couple of years, crept around listening to everybody else's wonders other years!
A cute balance of QE, QM, FS, Xmax and SD. Clean up to 2K on the woofer... and luckily the 3" HF section can play nicely into the 750 Hz region, and all the way up to 18.7K! I mean flat. No crossover heroics.
So, nice seamless cross over right in the frequency range where the ear is deaf to location. (750-1,250 HZ)
This driver trues out at 98.7... at 230 Hz. A slight rise above that. This driver, (unfortunately) other than special order ($50K anyone) is no longer in production.
A sad situation.... I utilitizized the this drivers special aspects in a Open Baffle format at RMAF in 2012? Don't recall if the year is correct, attended several years running about then. Displayed in the show a couple of years, crept around listening to everybody else's wonders other years!
Not sure the topic starter is still following this conversation but .. is a 18" woofer too much already ?
My 18" Dayton PA460-8 design is at 430 liters (15.2 ftˇ3) tuned to the exact fs of 28.3 Hz, f3 (-3dB) at 26Hz, sensi 95dB.
I'd rather use L-Pads (if a passive crossover) for the more sensitive upper region and be okay at around 95dB while in an active setup the system would need some gain correction only. If we take into consideration the Fletcher-Munson curves too, I'd live the system as is with the 98dB tweeter for a 95-96dB-ish woofer. Depends on room, environment, taste of ear, etc. But some compromise could be made here with the woofer selection which at the end wouldn't be that big of a compromise in reality.
I have exactly the same "issue" with my 98dB tweeter (3-way) - but it's a nonissue, I think in active setup.
For passive, again, L-Pads are far better solution in my opinion here than seeking for the ultimate woofer+box combination to go above 96dB in reality with the bass part. It can be made good maybe, but we're taking much more compromise then on the bass side than staying with a moderate bass sensitivity and using an L-Pad for the tweeter (and midrange if needed). Just an opinion, environment will screw up paperwork anyway 😉
My 18" Dayton PA460-8 design is at 430 liters (15.2 ftˇ3) tuned to the exact fs of 28.3 Hz, f3 (-3dB) at 26Hz, sensi 95dB.
I'd rather use L-Pads (if a passive crossover) for the more sensitive upper region and be okay at around 95dB while in an active setup the system would need some gain correction only. If we take into consideration the Fletcher-Munson curves too, I'd live the system as is with the 98dB tweeter for a 95-96dB-ish woofer. Depends on room, environment, taste of ear, etc. But some compromise could be made here with the woofer selection which at the end wouldn't be that big of a compromise in reality.
I have exactly the same "issue" with my 98dB tweeter (3-way) - but it's a nonissue, I think in active setup.
For passive, again, L-Pads are far better solution in my opinion here than seeking for the ultimate woofer+box combination to go above 96dB in reality with the bass part. It can be made good maybe, but we're taking much more compromise then on the bass side than staying with a moderate bass sensitivity and using an L-Pad for the tweeter (and midrange if needed). Just an opinion, environment will screw up paperwork anyway 😉
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I believe that I gained better/flatter bass response because I have 4x15" woofers, seems they sort of "flatten the room modes" somehow.
Modes are all over in my place, and my listening position is one of the worst spots, but with that "wall of displacement" I have much more even response than the previous setup. Very little eq needed.
There is still something missing in the correllation between "paperwork" and real life, but at least this one time it is working in my favor.
Edit:
I also prefer to dampen sound with L-pads, I think the sound changes less with volume, some times I get the feeling DSP eq somehow increases/decreases in accuracy in relation to volume.
Modes are all over in my place, and my listening position is one of the worst spots, but with that "wall of displacement" I have much more even response than the previous setup. Very little eq needed.
There is still something missing in the correllation between "paperwork" and real life, but at least this one time it is working in my favor.
Edit:
I also prefer to dampen sound with L-pads, I think the sound changes less with volume, some times I get the feeling DSP eq somehow increases/decreases in accuracy in relation to volume.
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2 per channel.
I do not have room for more than 3 x 15" per side. 2 Fane 15-400 for bass, 1 Fane FC152 for the rest, per channel.
2 x 15" per channel works out to something very close to a single 21", many 15" have an SD of ~855 sq cm so 1710 sq cm per channel (3420 sq cm for both channels, 5130 sq cm if you include both the 15" fullrangers), a single 21" like the Beyma 21PW1400Fe is ~1734 sq cm.
I do not have room for more than 3 x 15" per side. 2 Fane 15-400 for bass, 1 Fane FC152 for the rest, per channel.
2 x 15" per channel works out to something very close to a single 21", many 15" have an SD of ~855 sq cm so 1710 sq cm per channel (3420 sq cm for both channels, 5130 sq cm if you include both the 15" fullrangers), a single 21" like the Beyma 21PW1400Fe is ~1734 sq cm.
Or maybe 2008. They do all blend together. I can now only remember things with the help of this forum and Facebook.
I like the idea of the Kappalite 3015.
Beyma SM115K
I use four boxes with one SM115K in each, 2 front and 2 rear.
Vb is 138 liters, and if I remember correct F3 is 38 hz.
I'm very satisfied with them. Clean deep and good control.
Have tested a few amps and Altec 9440 seems to work best so far.
I can recommend them 🙂
Figge
I use four boxes with one SM115K in each, 2 front and 2 rear.
Vb is 138 liters, and if I remember correct F3 is 38 hz.
I'm very satisfied with them. Clean deep and good control.
Have tested a few amps and Altec 9440 seems to work best so far.
I can recommend them 🙂
Figge
Attachments
Omg, that's big sound 🙂
Although Fane's website struggles a little bit with all of my browsers, your ones seem to be a very good choice. Just checked the brand, never heard of it (my bad).
I think these might be a very good choice for the topic starter's needs (and the L-Pads of course if highs are way too much, they don't really alter sound, just dampen a little bit as you already wrote, with reasonably good resistors the highs remain pretty much audiophile grade - hate this word..) 😉 Cheers.
Not certain if I have seen any pictures of your setup yet GP?
Do you have any laying about?
Edit:
Vortex: yes, quite happy with the speakers so far, and they are reasonably priced as well.
Do you have any laying about?
Edit:
Vortex: yes, quite happy with the speakers so far, and they are reasonably priced as well.
Good to read that. What are you driving them with ? (WPC) I assume anything above 90+ dB copes pretty well with small WPC amps - at least such a "smaller" amp can also drive these monsters with great joy ('til a certain medium-high loudness).
OK.
Found a few of a prototype top using the Fane Sovereign 12-250TC.
picload.org | wp_20180214_21_42_57_pro.jpg
picload.org | wp_20180214_21_43_11_pro.jpg
picload.org | wp_20180214_21_43_39_pro.jpg
picload.org | wp_20180214_21_43_56_pro.jpg
picload.org | wp_20180214_21_44_11_pro.jpg
https://picload.org/view/dardwwdi/wp_20180214_21_44_24_pro.jpg.html
I got 2 of those, these are version 8, I need no eq already but on version 10 they might be "perfect". And 2 new Fanes waiting for the same fate.
For pics of kicks and subs you need to wait a little.
Kicks, 6th order bp, the box speaker 280w.
Subs, 6th order bp, Alpine SWG-1244.
I plan on 2 tops, 4 kicks, 8 subs per side.
To be honest, right at this very moment they are used with a Yamaha RX-V681, currently using voicemeeter banana with the HDMI output connected through asio4all, because if using WDM windows locks the HDMI output to 16bits regardless of what the option says or whatever my settings are, and I just like Voicemeeter, even though eqAPO might be better I find it somewhat cumbersome to use together with HDMI, Voicemeeter is much easier to get 100% with HDMI.
Not very proud of that, but I have been contemplating where to go next on pre-stage and amplification, still largely undecided.
I have many different power amps that can be used, low and high wattage. Power stage is not a concern, pre-stage is. And I am still looking around for a good solution.
Seriously considering just going for the Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5, and couple it with a good VST host for filtering because that just works really well, and I can have good control of internal resolution for processing filters. Power stage can be anything, a lot of good designs out there. Leaning slightly towards class D because power supplies are easier, but not certain yet. Might use my TPA3255 and TPA3251 eval boards though that is slightly overkill for my needs, or just get some more TPA3250.
Edit:
GP: Do you measure any difference in dispersion with/without the grill?
You listening to Jungle/drum'n'bass or something?
Not very proud of that, but I have been contemplating where to go next on pre-stage and amplification, still largely undecided.
I have many different power amps that can be used, low and high wattage. Power stage is not a concern, pre-stage is. And I am still looking around for a good solution.
Seriously considering just going for the Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5, and couple it with a good VST host for filtering because that just works really well, and I can have good control of internal resolution for processing filters. Power stage can be anything, a lot of good designs out there. Leaning slightly towards class D because power supplies are easier, but not certain yet. Might use my TPA3255 and TPA3251 eval boards though that is slightly overkill for my needs, or just get some more TPA3250.
Edit:
GP: Do you measure any difference in dispersion with/without the grill?
You listening to Jungle/drum'n'bass or something?
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Reggae/Dub/Steppas =)
With grill maybe 15-20% losses in overall SQ by ear.
But can't really use them outdoor without.
Before you use a gaming soundcard...
I can recommend the Behringer U-Phoria UMC202HD/UMC204HD.
Inexpensive and audiophile sound.
In a review it measured way better than a $300 DAC.
Budget DAC Review: behringer UMC204HD | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
It will do 32bit 192kHz, not just 24.
With grill maybe 15-20% losses in overall SQ by ear.
But can't really use them outdoor without.
Before you use a gaming soundcard...
I can recommend the Behringer U-Phoria UMC202HD/UMC204HD.
Inexpensive and audiophile sound.
In a review it measured way better than a $300 DAC.
Budget DAC Review: behringer UMC204HD | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
It will do 32bit 192kHz, not just 24.
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+1
I also wanted to ask why not using a cheap but very nice external USB DAC from eBay ? Either the PCB with the chip or half-complete (just the case and PSU is missing) or as a finished product.
I also wanted to ask why not using a cheap but very nice external USB DAC from eBay ? Either the PCB with the chip or half-complete (just the case and PSU is missing) or as a finished product.
no, I wish to have extension down to 30hz. what tuning do you find the omega 15 performing well in 173l?
my sim use about 35hz tuning...
My goal has been readjusted realistacally for a 3 way system of about 95db 1w. I think the omega pro 15 + pr170mo + hivi rt2ha will be able to hit that target in a 200L! xo points 300hz/1600hz
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