I also noticed that just when phono and LP and TT etc were getting things right and sounding really good... the industry changed to CD. And, same thing.... over time CD and digital got better and better. And, just when it is getting really good, its dropped for some new thing which is even more convenient. But, MP3 isnt so great and as we evolve the digital, it gets better, too. Now with HD masters being directly downloaded, source quality is really really good. Good as in more accurate to the original source.... closer to the mic and more real sounding.
Though I learned some about tubes and then SS and LP and CD and computers .... It isnt until now that I can get the closest to realism ever.
I havent listened to all analog in decades. The capacitor issue is less and less a factor in digital..... fewer needed or used in the record/play back signal path. But, there are still exceptions.
The last all analog strong hold is the power amplifier and digital is making inroads into that product area as well. And, we have wireless instead of wires to measure and interface with and talk about which wireless technology is best. Keeps improving also.
So, naturally, all these old analog issues are moving into the past and i dont like to spend a lot of time on it.... now, its recycling information.
I do appreciate Scott, Jan and all other - vocal here or not - view that thd is too low to consider an issue and they are correct in that sense. It is also true that people can still hear very very subtle differences and that has to be dealt with also. At least for the .01-1%'ers.
THx-RNMarsh
Though I learned some about tubes and then SS and LP and CD and computers .... It isnt until now that I can get the closest to realism ever.
I havent listened to all analog in decades. The capacitor issue is less and less a factor in digital..... fewer needed or used in the record/play back signal path. But, there are still exceptions.
The last all analog strong hold is the power amplifier and digital is making inroads into that product area as well. And, we have wireless instead of wires to measure and interface with and talk about which wireless technology is best. Keeps improving also.
So, naturally, all these old analog issues are moving into the past and i dont like to spend a lot of time on it.... now, its recycling information.
I do appreciate Scott, Jan and all other - vocal here or not - view that thd is too low to consider an issue and they are correct in that sense. It is also true that people can still hear very very subtle differences and that has to be dealt with also. At least for the .01-1%'ers.
THx-RNMarsh
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Sighted listening especially of something you built is full of bias. Years ago challenging visiting winemakers from France to blind tastings was considered bad form, the chance for an embarrassing situation was considered too great. In any case the comparison between food and wine to audio falls apart rapidly, the proper amount of salt can't even be agreed upon in a large group.
The best chiefs are usually celebrated by a huge majority of their customers. And I think it as good thing that several chiefs can
share various brand of customers.
Well, if you prefer, we can take musicians as an other example. Some have a large popular success, but no one is universally appreciated neither. Tastes and colors.
Ah my bad, the -117dB H2 was back to back 220uF bipolar with 0.5V at 100Hz. A single 100uF bipolar at 0.3V was -112dB H2. Certainly on that parameter I would not panic to use them if needed.
If you mean that, by taking a result measured with a significant AC drop across the capacitor which can be seen to be below the noise floor of the room and extrapolating that to say that, with no AC drop across it in a coupling application then the distortion will be , to quote SY '73% of **** all', then yes absolutely guilty as charged
.
For me it's just fun to tinker with Turntables. Triggers the dopamine. The digital recordings labels like Chandos are doing these days are just sublime. As I have mentioned before the fact that they release on hybrid SACD means there is not the silly LF roll off that plagues many recordings. And yet the dynamics are still not there. I am still on my hunt for recordings with dynamics that actually test the capabilities of digital and are worth listening to.
One thing I have noticed is that every soundcard I have looked at, including the M-Audio 192, use electrolytic coupling caps.
I no longer have a spare sound card, so I can't say if it was on the input, the output or both.
You can actually see the traces going to the connectors in this image of the M Audio Audiophile 24/96:
M-Audio Audiophile 2496 - sound card 2496 | eBay
And you can see the bank of output, input or both caps on the M Audio 192 here, after counting the number of caps, I suspect it was both:
https://dt7v1i9vyp3mf.cloudfront.ne...leheader-MaF3cANiEk_3g9kScrdEjiU1hj4taLD..jpg
When I had my card, I ohm'd them out. They are in the path.
I no longer have a spare sound card, so I can't say if it was on the input, the output or both.
You can actually see the traces going to the connectors in this image of the M Audio Audiophile 24/96:
M-Audio Audiophile 2496 - sound card 2496 | eBay
And you can see the bank of output, input or both caps on the M Audio 192 here, after counting the number of caps, I suspect it was both:
https://dt7v1i9vyp3mf.cloudfront.ne...leheader-MaF3cANiEk_3g9kScrdEjiU1hj4taLD..jpg
When I had my card, I ohm'd them out. They are in the path.
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Of course. Computer components request little size and components prices are reduced as much as possible.
No computer sound card I know sound better than average. I believe that it is what J.C call "mid-fi".
Anyway, with the proximity of the CPU, its big consumption at ultra high frequency, and the same switching power supply for all the components around, including the video card, no one can expect miracles.
If you have a very good hifi system, just connecting a computer to its common ground can ruin-it.
This said, nobody said that electrolytic coupling caps has a noticeable impact on measured performance. But many reported that they do have a noticeable negative impact on sound character. This said, they are not evil neither.
All about that bass .... We're gonna let these three gorgeous... - Postmodern Jukebox
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Its all in the details...... my hobby. 2017 CTS-V Street driven,
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Its all in the details...... my hobby. 2017 CTS-V Street driven,
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-RM
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Such a joke. Many USB DACs and T&M devices like AP connect to PCs and have state-of-the-art performance. Even an internal PCIe card like an RME or Lynx outperform many pieces of "hi-fi" gear. It is a problem that can and has been dealt with.
Love those boats especially the old Rolls Royce Merlin powered ones. But then I do like airplane noise.
Capacitors have gotten so good they are pretty boring these days. Only time I really heard the difference was in crossover circuits and then used the Multicap and custom PP from clarity. Rels are nice also since they can make just what we want.
Capacitors have gotten so good they are pretty boring these days. Only time I really heard the difference was in crossover circuits and then used the Multicap and custom PP from clarity. Rels are nice also since they can make just what we want.
That is not my experience. Of course, I was not talking about external cards electrically isolated from the PC.
As I said, the simple fact to connect electrically a computer to the ground of my amplifier ruin my system.
I have similar experience from several studio with a lot of digital equipment. So we used optical connexion.
it is a question of ground loops across the leakages of the transformers.
Even between a CD player and an amplifier, just try to measure the V between their ground before connecting them together, revert the AC phase of the CD player or any source AC powered and do the same measurement...
Better, listen and measure the difference with a headphone amp, if you power-it with battery or the same AC than your source.
Are-we living in the same world ?
This problem is the reason why, when I can, I prefer (good) switching power supplies for power amps when I can: the have better isolation.
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Love those boats especially the old Rolls Royce Merlin powered ones. But then I do like airplane noise.
Capacitors have gotten so good they are pretty boring these days. Only time I really heard the difference was in crossover circuits and then used the Multicap and custom PP from clarity. Rels are nice also since they can make just what we want.
True... Cross-overs/filters for speakers are a Biggy.... voltage drop across caps and high voltages and current and add issues with L of wiring and C greatly affecting phase (effectively as esr and esl)..... thus, cross-over affected.
Are there LCR testing gear which uses high volts and amps? Oh. I have an idea .... wait ...
THx-RNMarsh
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Coupling cap: easily flipped with almost impunity. Apparently makes a huge difference, although fairly trivial to make effectively distortion-free. Drags out over a hundred posts every 9 months when someone gets riled up.
Output transistors: harder to change, interacts significantly with the rest of the circuit, dominant form of distortion in a power amplifier, never talked about.
Funny, ain't it?
Output transistors: harder to change, interacts significantly with the rest of the circuit, dominant form of distortion in a power amplifier, never talked about.
Funny, ain't it?
Except Richard you've gone backwards and claimed audibility before showing anything beyond N=1 sighted impressions. And there's plenty of data out there showing a coupling caps (including some rather modest bipolar electrolytics) operating over audio bandwidth at < -120 dB H2/H3 while being driven at pretty good AC voltages. If you're telling me that's audible, I'm going to flat out call you out on showing some SERIOUS data. Because you're about a factor of a 100-1000 of what's been demonstrated.
As far as essentially distortion-free servos: throw a passive low-pass filter on the output of it to help out when the Sallen-Key runs out of loop gain: http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slyt306/slyt306.pdf (this shows where the Sallen Key runs out of steam, I'm hoping you can connect the dots). And this has already been mentioned by me early in this discussion.
I like BJT's and fast ones because I don't do high power. 2SC5200/2SA1943, even in their lower power packages works for me. The Onsemi 35 MHz FT's look good, too. Err on the side of biasing a bit fat on a AB because it's on the safe side of "minimum distortion", especially when you have (and you invariably have) impedance dips, and a little easier to use the little bit extra heating to keep a stable idle bias. Oliver criteria-ish. Plenty of people do great things with VFETs, too, don't get me wrong, although latFETs are getting a bit harder to find.
But more to the point -- pick your OPS with solid intent and realize the front-end with it in mind. And vice versa. It's an iterative loop and no one talks about it, instead freaking out about teflon this, polypropylene that, bipolar electrolytics are horrible, blah blah blah blah.
As far as essentially distortion-free servos: throw a passive low-pass filter on the output of it to help out when the Sallen-Key runs out of loop gain: http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slyt306/slyt306.pdf (this shows where the Sallen Key runs out of steam, I'm hoping you can connect the dots). And this has already been mentioned by me early in this discussion.
I like BJT's and fast ones because I don't do high power. 2SC5200/2SA1943, even in their lower power packages works for me. The Onsemi 35 MHz FT's look good, too. Err on the side of biasing a bit fat on a AB because it's on the safe side of "minimum distortion", especially when you have (and you invariably have) impedance dips, and a little easier to use the little bit extra heating to keep a stable idle bias. Oliver criteria-ish. Plenty of people do great things with VFETs, too, don't get me wrong, although latFETs are getting a bit harder to find.
But more to the point -- pick your OPS with solid intent and realize the front-end with it in mind. And vice versa. It's an iterative loop and no one talks about it, instead freaking out about teflon this, polypropylene that, bipolar electrolytics are horrible, blah blah blah blah.
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yep. Thats all I got. Mostly going by the fact (?) so many people listening say they hear differences and they will consistantly rank order by DA. And descibe what they hear much the same. And so for that reason, I believe most of them. Got to be some that is it true. Now if the answers were all over the map (random) then I would say.... nothing there. Which might be why this argument has continued to persist.
At the same time I also test and measure. and agree you can get some pretty fantastic thd numbers. Even too low to hear any of those added harmonics. I have heard 2H and 3H and both when I try to make them audible enough (changing bias, balance etc). Descriptions of electrolytic caps dont resemble those of harmonics. But it would sound like DA affect.
That is all I have for you.
Its interesting to me as I accept and hold both in my mind as true or real at the same time.
THx-RNMarsh
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