I have read, again, the full Doede's article, I think that I will reinstall things how they have to be at the beginning, forget the separation between digital and analgo, between left and right and come back to original design, just supplied by 2 LL1694, and use the LL1638 in my tube amp.
I waste too much time to debug the situation instead of appreciate the music...
I waste too much time to debug the situation instead of appreciate the music...
For a true high-res source file, where there's no oversampling in the first place, the NOS can work really well if capable of natively supporting 192/24 res sound.
It all comes down to individual taste. I personally like NOS, but this approach to digital reproduction does require a tremendous amount of work to get it right. Whenever I compare good NOS to any other approach, NOS gives that feel of few wet rags being removed between me and speakers. This is why I appreciate NOS sound.
In reality, it all comes down to a power supply; how clean and how fast the supply rails are. So, check this thread for starters: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/4562-bypass-caps-digital-ic-decoupling.html
The latest DDDAC decks' design are a definite step in right direction.
Regards,
Nick
It all comes down to individual taste. I personally like NOS, but this approach to digital reproduction does require a tremendous amount of work to get it right. Whenever I compare good NOS to any other approach, NOS gives that feel of few wet rags being removed between me and speakers. This is why I appreciate NOS sound.
In reality, it all comes down to a power supply; how clean and how fast the supply rails are. So, check this thread for starters: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/4562-bypass-caps-digital-ic-decoupling.html
The latest DDDAC decks' design are a definite step in right direction.
Regards,
Nick
Nick, can you hear any difference between NOS and OS Delta Sigma, when you play back 192/24 files? I guess we can't hear any difference if evrything else is the same, I mean the same filter, clocking, ps, analog circuite, etc.
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I like the natural, analog-like character of NOS sound. I can listen to this sound indefinitely and not feel even the slightest hint of digital fatigue. The OS designs can sound brilliant as well, but to me and in particular after few hours spent listening, I always come back to NOS design to relax and get a bit closer to an analog-like presentation.
One way to test the difference is to gather a bunch of people who listen / use music for a living, like musicians. Their trained ears will pick the differences, and in particular what sounds more natural, with ease.
At the end, I suggest you pick whatever suits your taste best, but definitely go back to that link I posted previously about correct decoupling... and then implement it to whatever your choice is.
One way to test the difference is to gather a bunch of people who listen / use music for a living, like musicians. Their trained ears will pick the differences, and in particular what sounds more natural, with ease.
At the end, I suggest you pick whatever suits your taste best, but definitely go back to that link I posted previously about correct decoupling... and then implement it to whatever your choice is.
Nick, I still wonder how you compared NOS and OS, because I guess the difference you hear is not due to oversampled or not. BTW, I have been working in the professional music industry for many years, and I Yes, I can clearly hear the difference between NOS and OS if the sample rate is 44.1K, but I suspect it is only because of the brick wall filter, not the NOS nature.
"Magic" Power Supply
I just stumbled over the new "Magic Power Supply" on the Audio-Creative DDDAC store. What is it? What's in the box? Why the box? Why magic? The DDDAC has not been about magic at all so far, so this shiny box seems like a strange addition to the DDDAC to me. But maybe someone can convince me from the opposite.
I just stumbled over the new "Magic Power Supply" on the Audio-Creative DDDAC store. What is it? What's in the box? Why the box? Why magic? The DDDAC has not been about magic at all so far, so this shiny box seems like a strange addition to the DDDAC to me. But maybe someone can convince me from the opposite.
This is an own initiative of Audio Creative and is a related product. Like if some one would offer a special chassis for the dddac. by the way, the answers to your questions are described in the story on their website. May be use google translate to read it if you cannot read dutch. Then all will be clear I think
I suggest you compare for yourself. The most important thing is the power supply and decoupling (and the simplistic NOS design in itself). NOS is capable of delivering an uninterrupted natural flow of music at all frequencies. Simply brilliant. But it does require a lot of attention and work.
Re 44.1kHz material, the measurements will tell clearly how severe the 20kHz drop is with a true NOS design. You can choose to compensate for this. But if the decoupling is done properly, the highs will be delivered instantaneously with great energy and precise timing, natural presentation and in an uncluttered manner, so compensating it is usually not needed.
I suppose the biggest difference between NOS and other designs is in this "clutter" I mentioned above - I can't really explain...
Nick
Nick, I don't understand your comments. I was asking if you compared NOS and OS in the exactly the a same environment. As far as I know, there is no way to test this @44.1K, I don't think I can do it. My point is the difference you heard would probably be not due to the difference between NOS and OS, but the difference in low pass filter design.
BTW, No drop at 20K with the true NOS design by itself, I'm afraid that you misunderstand NOS. Also PS is always important regardless of the design of DAC.
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Well, one of us certainly misunderstands the NOS design. With 44.1 kHz material the 22kHz Nyquist frequency causes the drop to be audible at 20Khz. It is a well known problem with all DAC's. OS designs choose to oversample. True NOS will only output samples at their original native rate and will not use any filters; digital nor analogue.
Nick
I now have the original DDDAC 1794 4 board DAC and the DDDAC 1794 with tent shunts...also 4 boards.
I have taken out the Cinemag Transformers on the DDDAC 1794 tent DAC and connect directly to the Plus and Neg Terminals...not using the common. I think I like the results better without the transformers...there is very little DC offset at the speakers .07 mv...
Any reason I should not bypass the transformers? Am I missing anything??
I have taken out the Cinemag Transformers on the DDDAC 1794 tent DAC and connect directly to the Plus and Neg Terminals...not using the common. I think I like the results better without the transformers...there is very little DC offset at the speakers .07 mv...
Any reason I should not bypass the transformers? Am I missing anything??
Great it works for you. Most audio chains do not like it when you enter a hot side to the ground, as most are single ended.
In your case, do you have true balanced inputs? If not your ground scheme is effectively isolated from the DAC. Otherwise this way will lead to humm
I have two alternative outputs: via Cinemags and direct from pos and neg. Direct from pos and neg sounds best but in my case at the expense of a little hum. If you've find a way to get rid of the hum do let me know!
Thanks
David
Hello,
I finished the assembly of my DAC with 4 Decks, power supply 5V of Doede, 12V transformer RCore 300VA 2 X 15V LCLC with 1 bleeder of 75 ohms I have 11.8 volt on the motherboard.
This should according to Doede be sufficient. To avoid the loops of mass it is necessary that I put on the frame of the box in only 1 point, the screen of the transformer, the negative of the power supplies and then on the earth.
As I am a little maniac, without connecting the motherboard to the 12V I started by connecting the negative pole of the 12V power supply to the chassis and there immediately the fuse 1A jumped while the 12 V floating (not connected to the ground ) worked very well.
Could someone correct my mistake?
Thanks
Pierre
I finished the assembly of my DAC with 4 Decks, power supply 5V of Doede, 12V transformer RCore 300VA 2 X 15V LCLC with 1 bleeder of 75 ohms I have 11.8 volt on the motherboard.
This should according to Doede be sufficient. To avoid the loops of mass it is necessary that I put on the frame of the box in only 1 point, the screen of the transformer, the negative of the power supplies and then on the earth.
As I am a little maniac, without connecting the motherboard to the 12V I started by connecting the negative pole of the 12V power supply to the chassis and there immediately the fuse 1A jumped while the 12 V floating (not connected to the ground ) worked very well.
Could someone correct my mistake?
Thanks
Pierre
Thank you for your replys Doede and Juancho...
None of my system is balanced...so just connected from DDDAC positive and negative...no common connection...short interconnect to pre amp...
No increase in hum...but I've always had a little bit of hum...
With Cinemags on the DDDAC Tent version I noticed an awful lot of Bass...more than my original DDDAC 1794 with Cinemags...can't imagine why. I think the Tent DDDAC is an improvement over the original DDDAC 1794...haven't listened enough to explain the improvement. I also think the Tent version is a bit brighter than original...
I may also hear more inner details...
None of my system is balanced...so just connected from DDDAC positive and negative...no common connection...short interconnect to pre amp...
No increase in hum...but I've always had a little bit of hum...
With Cinemags on the DDDAC Tent version I noticed an awful lot of Bass...more than my original DDDAC 1794 with Cinemags...can't imagine why. I think the Tent DDDAC is an improvement over the original DDDAC 1794...haven't listened enough to explain the improvement. I also think the Tent version is a bit brighter than original...
I may also hear more inner details...
Grounding supply 12V
To make things clearer, here is my 12V power supply.
When I plug in without grounding the 0V (floating potential) I get without load with only the bleeder -->13.6 V
As soon as I refer to the ground the fuse of 1 A T disconnects.😕😕😕
Does anyone have an explanation
Thank you
Pierre
To make things clearer, here is my 12V power supply.
When I plug in without grounding the 0V (floating potential) I get without load with only the bleeder -->13.6 V
As soon as I refer to the ground the fuse of 1 A T disconnects.😕😕😕
Does anyone have an explanation
Thank you
Pierre
Attachments
That looks a bit like the POS output of your PSU is connected to GND (by accident). Connecting the NEG output to GND would short the output, thus killing the fuse. Try to measure the resistance of the POS output to GND and see what you get.