The reason that evidence is required is simply that electrical theory and psychoacoustics (i.e. accepted science) tell us that minor cable changes will be inaudible and major cable changes will be a matter of faulty or working. Hearing tests confirm this.Boyan Silyavski said:
Electrical theory also tells us that where equipment is fussy about cables this is a sign of poor electrical design rather than 'fine discrimination'. Poor design is more likely in very expensive items.
There are people on here who know more about these things than a mere retired physicist like me. Last time I read about it (I think it was 2 days ago) I could not see any relevance to wild claims for audio cables. When did you last solve Schrodinger's equation or use a Feynman diagram to calculate a scattering amplitude? Or do you invoke Heisenberg with all the detailed technical knowledge of an arts graduate?
When used with competently designed equipment, cables can't affect this.
They are free to come here to defend themselves. Interestingly, some of them are already here. I sometimes find that some of the more ridiculous claims and more obvious ignorance displayed here actually come from people who make their living from audio!
Now that I can agree with. People should not take offence and lash out with insults when their opinions are challenged, especially when the challenge is on the basis of accepted knowledge.
Right... A DIY forum for electronics and electomechanical systems. No one could ever imagine that people with degrees and PhDs in physics, engineering, maths and related fields like playing with stuff and building things.
People with degrees in science tend to call a spade a spade, not a quantum tiller. You were given good advice. Up to you what you do with that.
You are free to think all you want. But unless you are THE standard thinker of the world, you should be willing to accept that your thoughts are just your personal anecdotes.
It's blather to those uninformed on audio cable science.
Sad is when a grown man complains that his feeling isn't pampered on internet forum.
I would love to see a wire that selectively changes the frequency of harmonics and leaves the fundamental alone. Where do all the missing/extra cycles go/come from?
It was just a suggestion to investigate in this direction. I don't imply its truth, but could be, cause as far as i know that's how/where subtle differences are perceived as far as instrument making is concerned. There are musical instruments that are so mastered that have fundamental, octave and fifth in tune and at the same time skipping certain separate higher harmonics.
After all nothing from recording to reproduction chain is ideal
A musical instrument is a complex mechanical system that is tuned.
An interconnect is a simple electrical system.
Apples and Aardvarks again.
An interconnect is a simple electrical system.
Apples and Aardvarks again.
To some, this is just blah blah...
Did you mean apples and orangutans?
Bananas and orangutans, surely?
Change the subject. Would a colourblind person benefit from having a colour TV or would black and white be a better choice? If you are deaf in one ear, would you still enjoy stereo?
There are so many things that is purely subjective that opening a debate is pointless.
As you say its like aarvarks and bananas, but if you are not a qualified veterinarian, what do you know about aardvarks orangutans or bananas for that matter?
There are so many things that is purely subjective that opening a debate is pointless.
As you say its like aarvarks and bananas, but if you are not a qualified veterinarian, what do you know about aardvarks orangutans or bananas for that matter?
This is true and very important to the timbre of sounds. The harmonic structure of a signal can be changed by active devices, like tubes or transistors. But by a wire or connector? I don't think there is any documentation of that. If someone can supply it (should be easy to measure) I think a lot of us would love to see it.
Again, true. But we do what we can. 🙂 I see a lot of pro equipment that suppresses the 4th harmonic as compared to others. I don't know what a chain of devices that do that will sound like, but would be interested to isolate that effect. It seems to be common in pro gear.
These cycles obviously go to the Charge Carrier Bucket, the analog analogue of the Bit Bucket.
Please don't feel singled out in that we doubt YOUR sound perception. We doubt EVERYONE's sound perception, including our own.
As Ethan Winer says in one of his videos (I was just watching his "Damn Lies Workshop"), sound REproduction is very different from sound PROduction. He has two long but interest videos he made at AES, one called "Audio Myths Workshop" and the other named above.
Now YOU are the one claiming high-fallutin' Science!
What correlates with high price usually isn't the sound, it's the packaging and luxurious-looking advertising. This was demonstrated quite explicitly by the AK-DL1.
I think a most important point is brought up in the last sentence of this movie trailer of "An Honest Liar" (slight trigger warning, it has a steaming pile of 4-letter words):
Trailer |
Some of these expensive speaker cables have intentionally high amounts of inductance and capacitance, so they indeed CAN sound different by changing the frequency response. And in a sighted test, with a salesperson extolling the virtues of this overpriced sound-modifying device, it's easy to convince most people that it's not just different, but better.
Not exactly what was said, pitch is not amplitude. I took it as a 1kHz tone has say 3k and 5k overtones and the wire makes it say 1k, 3.01k, 5.04k via some process that violates all known physics or sense for that matter.
While these audiophile cables may have large amounts of inductance or capacitance, it's rather challenging to have large amounts of both at the same time. On the other hand, some manufactures add EQ networks that could have both.
No, could not be. Cables cannot do that to an audio signal. Even a faulty cable can't do that!Boyan Silyavski said:
Any good cable will simply pass the signal on unchanged.
Bad cables can:
- degrade frequency response
- add interference
- add microphonics
- a really bad cable might even add some nonlinear distortion (via poor end connections)
All of these effects could be misconstrued as an improvement in sound, especially when the listener made or paid for the cable.
There are three fairly reliable ways to get a bad cable:
1. buy a very cheap one
2. buy a very expensive one
3. make it yourself
None of these methods is foolproof, as all can sometimes result in a good cable.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.