I'm kinda astounded that all of my well thought-out posts get about four replies, but I come up with a trollish title like "JBL M2 for the poors" and it receives 400 responses
This thread did at least point me to the D2 driver and to how I could obtain a pair of these !
Thank you Patrick !
Regards
Charles
Amen, Reverend.
Loudspeakers are transducers of our emotional responses to music. If we're lucky, they're evocative of memory and connect us to the cheapest Art form, recordings of sound.
There are plenty of loudspeakers which measure poorly and yet succeed. Think early Magnepan, 1st generation Walkman, Philco consoles, etc. for illustration.
The problem in dealing with enthusiasts (addicts?) is the ever rising level of expectation that must be met by the maker.
I doubt I could tolerate 5 minutes with my first system, today.
In my opinion, ANY loudspeaker that triggers fond memory or has you singing along has achieved the primary purpose.
Those that wish to prevaricate about which iteration of an obsolete driver was 'the best' tread a familiar path that leads to hoarding, bickering and irrelevance.
Put it this way, phenomenal music is played by earnest young people - LIVE in front of receptive audiences. If you haven't been out to hear some in awhile, you're on the road to Crazy Uncle status.
Jim
Westport, MA
USA
Sent from my HP 10 G2 Tablet using Tapatalk
can you explain the nonsense in the seas? if you want the best they can make expect to pay up.
are berylium diaphragms for pro tweeters nonsense? they cost thousands also.
the D2 driver is not that good, people who have tried 2450 with berylium say its easily beaten. yet jbl claim its the best speakers they have made.. they have also pushed very expensive drivers in the past.
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I could easily imagine that there are better drivers than the D2. But the more exotic ones are made out of unobtainium and cost a lot more.
I have a two-way with a 2426 driver on a 2344 horn. This was once also some type of legendary combination. I will use my D2s on a cheap CD horn in a beefy three-way system. Upon first informal listening (2 Wattt amplifier 2nd order BW highpass in front of amp) to the D2 on said horn it sounded much smoother out of the box than the 2426/2344 combination. The measurements confirmed that as well. From 1.2 to 5 kHz it is linear within +- 1 dB. With proper EQing it is going significantly higher than 20 kHz. The combo with the diffraction horn is much more ragged.
Regards
Charles
I did not suggest the D2 is JBL's best (compression) driver. Other, far more experienced, diy-ers, prefer a 2450 with berylium diaphragm soundwise.
Both D2 and 2450 are expensive products, but so are similar big compression drivers from TAD, Radian, Vitavox, G.I.P. etc.
The price of these drivers is, at least for a great part, based and 'justified' by their size, materials used and performance.
On the diamond SEAS:
To be clear, I highly regard SEAS as manufactuerer of quality products. I am actually listening to SEAS tweeters (and Scanspeak cones) as I type this message.
As respected people in the world of diy audio have pointed out (Zaph ao) for every type of driver there is a certain 'sanity level'. In general the price-perfomance ratio tends to decrease as we move up. A much higher price may still be reasonble for only a small increase in performance, or special performance related 'feature' (i.e. Berylium domes). SEAS' catalog contains a number of such products under the illuminous moniker 'Exotic'.
Thats perfectly fine and even justified....not in the least from a marketing perspective.
But these 4000!!! USD bling bling diamond domes....as Eldam already said: they seem to be developed 'in a higher state of.... ' whatever.
They probably would do very well in a gold plated Bentley with Swarowsky Crystal interior finish.
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I guess the SEAS diamond driver IS actually very good despite the nonsense bling design. But it costs an arm and two legs.
I don't know to what extent the price of diamond drivers is defined by actual manufacturing costs and by how much by hype. It does for sure take quite some time to grow diamond structures with those vapor deposition processes.
But for the price of a pair of these I got all my drivers for my new kitchen speakers - including a pair of D2430:
I don't know to what extent the price of diamond drivers is defined by actual manufacturing costs and by how much by hype. It does for sure take quite some time to grow diamond structures with those vapor deposition processes.
But for the price of a pair of these I got all my drivers for my new kitchen speakers - including a pair of D2430:
Attachments
I guess, price-performance wise you are well within 'sanity level'
Are these 18sound mids and lows?
And it is true: diamond domes are very expensive to make ( or should I say: 'grow' ).
B&W's replacement d-domes are 1500 USD each.
I must admit, I've never heard d-domed loudspeakers.
Perhaps, I'd better not listen to such speakers... They may provoke some greediness
Are these 18sound mids and lows?
And it is true: diamond domes are very expensive to make ( or should I say: 'grow' ).
B&W's replacement d-domes are 1500 USD each.
I must admit, I've never heard d-domed loudspeakers.
Perhaps, I'd better not listen to such speakers... They may provoke some greediness
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This is his kitchen???
In that case, I would definitely go for diamond domes!!!
(Kidding)
You'll need some serious hardware to fill a space like this.
Seems you made a good choice p_a (public address seems appropriate here ;-)
I wonder why you choose the PT waveguides over let's say XT-1464/XR1496, SEOS, QSC's etc?
Previous (positive) experiences, perhaps?
In that case, I would definitely go for diamond domes!!!
(Kidding)
You'll need some serious hardware to fill a space like this.
Seems you made a good choice p_a (public address seems appropriate here ;-)
I wonder why you choose the PT waveguides over let's say XT-1464/XR1496, SEOS, QSC's etc?
Previous (positive) experiences, perhaps?
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Does the transition with the open big driver and the sealed horn work ?
look is good... the bullet drivers look like weapons though.
Some data:
Frequency Response Range :
25 Hz – 20 kHz optimum response curve
adjustable with precision of 0.1 to 0.5 dB steps
Radiation :
dipole through entire spectrum
front side controlled directivity
Tweeters :
1″ exit compression mid/treble
Radian R475PB open back on SEOS15 WG
The waveguides are not sealed, even the Radians are 'open back':
wow, the quality of the pannel (birch ply wood?)and the cutting are awesome (rounded edges ): clean like an "off the shelff" speaker !
Btw have you a better linearity without the compression back plate ? (why a Radian 475 ? because 800 Hz LR4?) !
Let me guess : the higher 12" is around 300-800/1000 (or more with the bullet phase plug?) and the lower has a massive LR transform but has the help of +3 dB being near the floor ? Or am I tottaly wrong ?
Nice looking for a DIY, the level is high with here, idem when we saw the M2 wooded above...
): clean like an "off the shelff" speaker !Btw have you a better linearity without the compression back plate ? (why a Radian 475 ? because 800 Hz LR4?) !
Let me guess : the higher 12" is around 300-800/1000 (or more with the bullet phase plug?) and the lower has a massive LR transform but has the help of +3 dB being near the floor ? Or am I tottaly wrong ?
Nice looking for a DIY, the level is high with here, idem when we saw the M2 wooded above...
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