I still can't wrap my brain around this sudden loss of auditory discrimination skills as a result from blinding other senses.
This is not a DAC, but a box of features. I contains a DAC maybe of the less terrible kind.
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This is a sound card, it has less metal parts than above, but it is also not a DAC. It also contains a DAC but hard to tell if this contains a less terrible kind.
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So youknowyou, which DACs of the kind in post 224 would you recommend be inside the box or sound card, so we amateurs can make some informed decisions when we look for a product that contains a DAC of the less terrible kind.
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A DAC as in post #224 can't do its job without support circuitry and execution of that is very important.
dave
dave
The DAC chip is quite important, but there are a plethora of other concerns that need to be addressed as well. There are a lot of DACs that may use a certain chip-set and they will perform quite differently depending on choices made during the design. The layout of the PCB, the grounding of the PCB (very critical), components used and shielding all play an important part.
Best Regards,
TerryO
Ah the same powersupply with multiple regs in front of it to feed all the difital & analog circuits !
We know now why it can sounds so crappy 😀
post 224 : dac chip is an easier term if you want just to talk about this and DAC for the complete device around the dac chip.
I already say that, but Nico seems to believe (but I think more and more thisis a private joke !) that a soundcard because at minima as a plug in stuff is enough because when one buys a DAC, he buys no usefull things : lot of metal, the box, the marketing, the Audiophil foolness, etc !
He is not wrong but partial as when one buys a soundcard, he believe the powerfull PC will give him all the crappy plug in needs to have a better result ! It's not as you say it again !
My statment is the PCB guys of PC world don't know for most of them how to make a good sound with a sound card, but if they come of a sound company ! So with a specialised stuff like a DAC : a designer take all he needs to targett his goal without so much constraint but his markett target (the pricing : and this is a very disputed aera than the DACs)!
What about pro sound stuffs : well we see they can be as expensive than the stuffs for audiophools (and yes some stuffs are ridiculous too expensive, as they are priced for Mollah from Petrohiarchie !).
Take one your money can buy and benchmark with this money an external dac and a soundcard : finish, problem solved !
Sterile discussion, but drole 🙂
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The big issues with a sound card is that if is inside a box rife with RF noise, and subject to the vagairities of the PC powersuppy (also an issue if you use Firewire/USB bus power)
dave
Yes too much constraints, even if the vagarities of the pc powersupply can certainly be fixed...
Now I would like the Audiophile designers make their DAC like the pro for studios ! With usefull gadgets : streaming with RJ45, filter with true usefull curves, etc, etc !
That's cool, I read more and more usefull inputs from the reccording pro guys here in diyaudio 🙂 🙂 ! And of course usefull soft to be putt in the PC, Rasberry : the PC chips 😉
Is it not TERRIBLE than todays we need yet an usn with wire to Stream when we are more and more with local networks and dematerialised data store which can be splitted from the streamer ???????
I wait for the DDX cards into the PC : you want a four ways speaker and a PC : good luck with the powersupply !
Now I would like the Audiophile designers make their DAC like the pro for studios ! With usefull gadgets : streaming with RJ45, filter with true usefull curves, etc, etc !
That's cool, I read more and more usefull inputs from the reccording pro guys here in diyaudio 🙂 🙂 ! And of course usefull soft to be putt in the PC, Rasberry : the PC chips 😉
Is it not TERRIBLE than todays we need yet an usn with wire to Stream when we are more and more with local networks and dematerialised data store which can be splitted from the streamer ???????
I wait for the DDX cards into the PC : you want a four ways speaker and a PC : good luck with the powersupply !
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Like I said elsewhere I hope you are compensating for the difference in group delay between the DACs you are using otherwise the phase and time alignment of the system will change dramatically when you change DAC. This also requires different compensation depending on which digital filter you are using within the DAC. Some have many options to choose from. In a multiway active DSP based system changing the digital filter used is akin to changing the DAC, it will screw up the systems phase and time alignment again.
Unless you are specifically measuring and compensating for these differences then your listening tests are completely invalid.
As an example, if you were to arbitrarily change the DAC on the tweeters in my system you would basically go from having a perfectly phase and time aligned loudspeaker to one that would be considered faulty by comparison. And yes the sound changes dramatically when you do this but for other reasons than how the DAC sounds.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Test continues tonight with the Weiss DAC2.
Perhaps you can point to that noise in the sound card spectra I've been posting and publishing?
Oh, I took it as an attempt at epistemology (in that you can never *truly* prove or disprove something unless you have the entire data set and perfect testing).