World's Best Tweeters Face-off :: Subjective comparison

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#221
4mc2 said:
You don't know the supertweeter effect ? .......... it's not the ear that caption the very high frequency ( higher that 15 khz to 80 khz ) but give a more air to sound stage image ..... up to -120 db and more lower also

- 90 db is your floor measurement equipment .......... not very good !
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I think that 90dB range is very good for acoustic measurement. And the critisism should be directed to Mr. Zaph! Zaph|Audio
 
#222
-90dB is very good noise floor imo for ACOUSTIC measurement. Measuring electronics in electrical domain is much easier.

H2 dominant spectrum (as much as possible) is imo the most preferable one. One can taylor this kind of speaker to any kind of distortion profile one wants with a SET tube amp for example. There is no speaker that has tube-like distortion spectrum (like air transfer function), it has to be created with electronics. It requires that the speaker has very low distortion which is very H2 dominant.

edit. Juhazi got here first. 🙂
 
#224
my remark was for frequency of supertweeter . ( like 30 khz )

noise floor at -120 and -130 db is usual for him

==============

I am all right that for supertweeter the best amp must be a SET ..... good Juhazi !
 
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#227
Legis said:
....There is no speaker that has tube-like distortion spectrum (like air transfer function), it has to be created with electronics. It requires that the speaker has very low distortion which is very H2 dominant....
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Can you elaborate on your "tube-like distortion spectrum" statement?
Speakers can be made H2 harmonic distortion dominant by implementing motor distortion reduction design features, such as inductance shortening rings. The odd order distortion harmonics are reduced.

Generally, even order harmonic distortion is reduced by using stiffer cones. Then potential cone break-ups in the 4 to 8 kHz region have to be addressed.
 
#228
twinter said:
Can you elaborate on your "tube-like distortion spectrum" statement?
Speakers can be made H2 harmonic distortion dominant by implementing motor distortion reduction design features, such as inductance shortening rings. The odd order distortion harmonics are reduced.

Generally, even order harmonic distortion is reduced by using stiffer cones. Then potential cone break-ups in the 4 to 8 kHz region have to be addressed.
Click to expand...

Hi, I ment the "decreasing slope" of distortion components when the (SET) tube is driven quite hard. Such a textbook non-linearity does not exist in drivers, but it can be created there with electronics if the driver has adequately low and H2 dominant distortion spectrum. 🙂

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
 
#229
Legis said:
Hi, I ment the "decreasing slope" of distortion components when the (SET) tube is driven quite hard. Such a textbook non-linearity does not exist in drivers, but it can be created there with electronics if the driver has adequately low and H2 dominant distortion spectrum. 🙂

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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The Usher 8945P, Vifa NE180W, and Satori MW165DC should meet or come very close to meeting this criteria. With good motor design using distortion reduction measures, the 3rd harmonic can be reduced below the level of the 2nd harmonic. Lowering the 5th harmonic below the 4th harmonic is a little more difficult.

For these drivers, we're referring to 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion levels in the -60 to -80 dB (0.1 to 0.01%), and 4th and 5th harmonic distortion levels in the -80 to -90 dB (0.01 to 0.003%) range.

For the Satori MW165DC and Vifa NE180W harmonic distortion profile:
Zaph|Audio

For the Usher 8945P harmonic distortion profile:
Zaph|Audio
 
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#230
Satori seems to be very good indeed. Other very H2-dominant drivers, that come to my mind quickly include electrostats, compression drivers (basically horns with some compression ratio in general including bass horns), ribbons above >2-5kHz (the bigger the ribbon, the lower the clear H2 dominance begins). Of course this includes also other genres but these are very clearly H2 dominant.
 
#231
TPL150_1_Kx_100cm_95-110dB.gif


How about tpl-150´s distortion graph?

https://hifi-selbstbau.de/datenbler-mainmenu-40/hocht-mainmenu-61/329-beyma-tpl-150
 
#232
Any benchmarks from real listenings between : (If a tweeter is 2 k Hz and up)

Aurum Cantus AST2560 back plate removed
B&G Neo8-PDR + Neo 3 Pdr (so with high XO > 3 Khz)
Raals... (how to get the OEM ?!)
Mundorf AMTs

At 2000 Khz as possible XO !
 
#235
@ Speaker-doctor... ah I believed it was the 70-20... have to re read the line ! seems the 70-10 unmorphous at 400 USD is less expensive than most of the Raals and acceptable for 3 K hZ XOs ! (at least an alternativ if not high efficienty is needed like AMTs like an ESS V1 or Beyma TPL-150 ! Raals beingthe only ribbons able to touch and/or outperforms the AMTs.)

@ Bill poster, thank you for the tip, I have to read those Part Express threads !

Not easy to understand the behavior of the vertical pattern of ribbons/planar from a noob view like mine : some says it's better to avoid first floor and ceilling réflexions while some others says the wider, the more enlighment of the rooms and best détails like stage perception !
 
#236
Eldam said:
@ Speaker-doctor... ah I believed it was the 70-20... have to re read the line ! seems the 70-10 unmorphous at 400 USD is less expensive than most of the Raals and acceptable for 3 K hZ XOs ! (at least an alternativ if not high efficienty is needed like AMTs like an ESS V1 or Beyma TPL-150 ! Raals beingthe only ribbons able to touch and/or outperforms the AMTs.)
Click to expand...

Both the 64-10 and the 70-20 are OEM only. 🙂
 
#238
For anyone transducer , I prefer there are direct propagation for more fine nuance that the AMT style ( air motion ) that are not direct like also 1" or 2" driver with horn .

And I choice the best ... Bl / Mms value ....... for the more acceleration possible

I have buy the RAAL Dipole at Solen ..... when is in special , the price is OK . I have pay $600. CAD ( 400 euro ) for each

For the Hi-End system the prize is not the first item in the balance !!!!!

Salut à la France
 
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