Cryoing is a commercial process that takes time and equipment to do properly. It is NOT just dipping a component into liquid nitrogen or some such. Jack tried this method, himself, once, long ago, and said it did not do anything.
Jack goes to a commercial cryoing firm, one of which was located in Oakland, which is near where I live. This is why he would visit me more regularly some years ago, as he had to drop off or pick up stuff that was cryoed in that facility.
It amazes me that you guys do not 'google' cryoing and learn what the process entails. It has been used since WW1 for submarine hatches, for example. In WW2 it was used to extend the life of machine tools. In recent years, race car engines have been cryoed. Look it up. I know, these are ONLY mechanical changes, BUT there have been reported electrical changes too, and that is why people sometimes cryo wire, Bybee devices, and even entire circuit assemblies.
I have never cryoed anything, myself. I am just too lazy.
Jack goes to a commercial cryoing firm, one of which was located in Oakland, which is near where I live. This is why he would visit me more regularly some years ago, as he had to drop off or pick up stuff that was cryoed in that facility.
It amazes me that you guys do not 'google' cryoing and learn what the process entails. It has been used since WW1 for submarine hatches, for example. In WW2 it was used to extend the life of machine tools. In recent years, race car engines have been cryoed. Look it up. I know, these are ONLY mechanical changes, BUT there have been reported electrical changes too, and that is why people sometimes cryo wire, Bybee devices, and even entire circuit assemblies.
I have never cryoed anything, myself. I am just too lazy.
Satellites, space and near space are different to normal design by a long way. Components take for an age to get through the various checks and if they are not already qualified for space, forget it. Then there is the packaging, none of your normal packaging, all fancy and expensive hermetically sealed. Different world from commercial design... And I don't think they do Audio units to NASA or ESA spec. Put NASA's wiring guide up on JC Blowtorch thread recently, hundreds of pages. Of course if they did use these sort of design practices in some of the more esoteric 'high end' stuff I could understand the prices😀
OK, before I tease you fellows any more and get in trouble, let me fess up.
The cryo facility normally treats racing aircraft engines, as seen in the Red Bull races. They test the results. But by now you are no longer interested. 😉
I can say that cryogenic treatment does change things, but I have no idea if it's any good for audio.
- Yes, a close friend had most of his system cryo treated
- Yes, he used a reputable facility that does cryo correctly (it was hard to find, not open to the public)
- Yes, he had measurements done before and after
- Yes, there was marked improvement in those measurements
- No, it was not an audio system.
The cryo facility normally treats racing aircraft engines, as seen in the Red Bull races. They test the results. But by now you are no longer interested. 😉
I can say that cryogenic treatment does change things, but I have no idea if it's any good for audio.
That's the transition I was talking about. So far, it's the only thing that cryo has had a demonstrated positive effect on.
Just for interest,
Cryogenic Processing Machines
Electronics and Cryogenic Processing
Regards
M. Gregg
Cryogenic Processing Machines
Electronics and Cryogenic Processing
Regards
M. Gregg
Agreed. Despite having a really good materials guy as a lecturer never got my head around the weird stuff anything with iron in can get up to. Being as I grew up almost in the epicenter of world F1 development you would hear all sorts of stories on how engine blocks would be conditioned before use. Before they understood it properly BMW used to use blocks from the scrapyard with at least 100k miles on as the base. Ilmor used to leave blocks outside to weather and for some reason I have never understood encouraged the staff to urinate on them.
But how 'it makes a race engine more powerful' can be extrapolated to 'it makes my music sound better' I do not understand.
Bill,
Have you tried urinating on you loudspeakers?
Not so far fetched, I got a pair of Accoustats because the proud owner's dog did. He traded them in at the other stereo store in town being too embarrassed to admit to where he purchased them that they didn't work out. The other stereo store didn't want them on the sales floor, so they gave me them in trade for some pro gear they needed.
Never found any sign of moisture but one unit did have a bad high voltage diode. Had a bunch in stock so the cost of repair was a few dollars. I suspect the dog really didn't spray them as the dog would have learned about electricity.
But as far as I am concerned there may be some improvement! At least for me. 🙂
Have you tried urinating on you loudspeakers?
Not so far fetched, I got a pair of Accoustats because the proud owner's dog did. He traded them in at the other stereo store in town being too embarrassed to admit to where he purchased them that they didn't work out. The other stereo store didn't want them on the sales floor, so they gave me them in trade for some pro gear they needed.
Never found any sign of moisture but one unit did have a bad high voltage diode. Had a bunch in stock so the cost of repair was a few dollars. I suspect the dog really didn't spray them as the dog would have learned about electricity.
But as far as I am concerned there may be some improvement! At least for me. 🙂
A metallurgist who happens to be a member here, did mention one time to me that cables, that have to be coiled to be teated, lose any potential gain once uncoiled.
I'd like to see Pano's friend's measurements too.
I'd like to see Pano's friend's measurements too.
I will leave the spelling mistake, as it's as entertaining as anything else in this thread, in fact I find it rather titillating. Thanks for the mammaries Bill.
Pissah! You could find some appropriate material here but I'm afraid the original vinyl is necessary for the full effect. Quite stunning BTW one might wonder why CD's or any other "high" rez media was invented.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreams_Less_Sweet
Sure.
In earlier informal testing I have measured significant reduction in low frequency noise...I am soon to start rigorous and repeatable measurements.
One asset with this technique is the capability of instant A/B testing on the fly, with no cable swapping, shutdown etc required.
Self delusion and delusion of others is not in the equation.
You might like to try reading my post again.
The "audiophiles and bespoke audiophile outlets" market whilst having some significance is too small to be the primary focus.
One area that is of direct interest to me, is large concert pro audio...I have treated multiple stadium systems on the sly (multicore and/or power) and the improvement is significant.
In one such test, Axl Rose stopped between songs, pointed to the FOH engineer and said "(name) is there something you're not telling me, this is the best sound I've ever had" !!!.
I also have a recording of a Devo concert and the step change in the playback sound is readily audible.
My aim is better sound for the masses, and my product idea can be readily incorporated at OEM manufacturing level, or available as a retrofittable kit to existing systems and readily affordable for typical family home AV surround systems.
Audiophile versions may be 'dressed up' a little, and intended to compliment the audiophiles 'investment' in expensive cabling etc.
Other 'audiophile' versions could be owner fittable to equipment internals and loudspeaker magnets.
My next step is indeed measurement proofs, and then maybe comes the physics explanations.
I am not interested whatsoever in airy fairy BS marketing blurb....any ad copy will be factual and straight to the point.
The underlying principle here is that very low frequency noise has far more impact on sound quality than is typically recognised.
Dan.
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