Actually, he owns XA160.5's as well as XA200.8's, so I expect that both will be sold to make way for the big Gryphons.
Oh wow!! Is he biamping the speaker? The 200.8 is a super nice reference amp...get it with confidence! Why didn't he consider the XS300!? If he was in the market for a beast amp and wanted to stay on the Pass family, there was an amp of worthy consideration.
Now you got me curious....what's his configuration? What amp is he thinking of getting?
Now you got me curious....what's his configuration? What amp is he thinking of getting?
Agree can make a night and day difference in some systems and worth a try. A lot easyer to try out if running active or DSP because it doesn't change filter slopes but still its very pleasing mod and for most times doesn't reveal itself at measurements but only at A/B listening.
Active crossover are a nice feature and present many benefits, however when you go that route on high level systems, I would only personally consider it in the case of the Nautilus speaker where the manufacturer has specifically designed one for that speakers, rather than going fiddling around with frequency and slopes.
I would say if you have a very nice speaker just leave it the way it is, but maybe that's just me.
If you want active crossover, go for a speaker that has one that comes with the system and specifically designed by the manufacturer to work with that specific speaker!
I would say if you have a very nice speaker just leave it the way it is, but maybe that's just me.
If you want active crossover, go for a speaker that has one that comes with the system and specifically designed by the manufacturer to work with that specific speaker!
Good points Stefanoo,
Admit the ones i mod is mostly from beginning diy speakers or if retail its cheaper ones.
That said Art Vandelay seems got payed back his
efforts thanks everyone sharing stuff.
Admit the ones i mod is mostly from beginning diy speakers or if retail its cheaper ones.
That said Art Vandelay seems got payed back his
efforts thanks everyone sharing stuff.
The last time I visited he had a pair of Levinson No. 53 mono's hooked up and was interested in 2nd opinions. Interestingly, the 53's were less bloomy and controlled the bass better than either of the Pass amps but were slightly less dynamic and didn't dig quite as deep when called upon. Ultimately I preferred the XA200.8's mid and treble though - the 53's being a bit dry and bland for my liking, but we didn't try bi-amping because the amps weren't gain matched.
I'll be visiting him again within the next week or so to demo a pc based server that I've put together so I'll find out what he intends to do with the Pass amps. He has mentioned the XS300 but I think the local HiFi dealer is trying to sell him the Gryphon power amps to match the Pandora.
Btw, my friend who owns the 800 Signatures runs Krell FPB's, which are the older plateau bias series and they sound really good with his Sig's. Bass control is excellent and the treble is very transparent. I'm not a big fan of the latest Krell's but I'm aiming to borrow a dealer's demo 402e in the near future.
I have listened to the mark levinsons jus at the show in different rooms. I share your opinion...tight in the bass...good overall but too dry and clinical.
I feel too pass xa200.5(8) sounds better being more powerful with more slam and dynamic and in general it sounds more like music.
I am pretty sure you will like the 200 with your speakers.
I have never listened to the older krel, I would be very interested to do so, and I have heard they are pretty good contrary to the new series which have rely little to share with them.
I have personally auditioned the 402 and while I didn't find it terrible I didn't feel it was even on the same ball park in terms of realm as the pass..though still a very nice amp overall.
Yes your friend should also consider XS300 however the gryphon are probably just equally as good and since he went already down the route of gryphon gear, it kind of makes sense if he was happy with it to complete with a matching gryphon.
Your friend with 800 signature should try the xa200.8 as well...I have no clue how it would compare with his older school krell...being said they both share a skeleton of pure class A, the XA series combines a huge dose of class A along with some class A single end power and also a good headroom in class A/B this producing an overall sound of an all around amplification...which would make me guess it probably sounds a little more modern...I don't know! the XS extends and builds on the strengths of the xa.8 but is by far much beefier and powerful then the smaller brothers!!
I feel too pass xa200.5(8) sounds better being more powerful with more slam and dynamic and in general it sounds more like music.
I am pretty sure you will like the 200 with your speakers.
I have never listened to the older krel, I would be very interested to do so, and I have heard they are pretty good contrary to the new series which have rely little to share with them.
I have personally auditioned the 402 and while I didn't find it terrible I didn't feel it was even on the same ball park in terms of realm as the pass..though still a very nice amp overall.
Yes your friend should also consider XS300 however the gryphon are probably just equally as good and since he went already down the route of gryphon gear, it kind of makes sense if he was happy with it to complete with a matching gryphon.
Your friend with 800 signature should try the xa200.8 as well...I have no clue how it would compare with his older school krell...being said they both share a skeleton of pure class A, the XA series combines a huge dose of class A along with some class A single end power and also a good headroom in class A/B this producing an overall sound of an all around amplification...which would make me guess it probably sounds a little more modern...I don't know! the XS extends and builds on the strengths of the xa.8 but is by far much beefier and powerful then the smaller brothers!!
My friend just had his Krell refurbished after one channel died, so he's probably in no rush to upgrade at the moment. The refurbish involved replacement of the main electrolytic filter and rail bypass caps as well as the microprocessor and about half the output transistors in one channel. For a pseudo class A amp it's a bit light-on in terms of filter capacitance, and not surprisingly the ripple current takes its toll after about 10 years of operation.
If you're unlucky as he was then failure can be catastrophic and very expensive to repair. The other problem with Krell's is that the amps often need to be sent to an authorised repairer for servicing because the output transistors are modern On-Semi's in the old TO3 package and are only available from Krell.
Pass is better for servicing but the input / VAS pcb is surface mount + multi-layered, which make servicing more difficult, particularly if you can't get hold of a schematic / service manual. IMHO, when you buy a power amp you need to consider long term reliability and serviceability, especially if you're intending to keep it for 10 years or more.
pheee wee everybody knows that B&W only works with humongous Mcintosh amps and not with itsy bitsy Euro/Canadian amps ...It's a very smart move on a part of b&W regarding the Best Buy selling venue . Considering the level of performance they achieve it's a perfect place to move them. Also it was a marvelous marketing trick to pay BBC and put their speakers in the studios , win win situation for cash strained British Broadcast Corp and expanding B&W business. I've always respected British manufactures but B&W must be the most overhyped brand in existence .The best contemporary models are nothing more than boom and tizzz machines in fashionable wrap up. Simply glorified BOSS.
"BOSS" OR "BOSE"?
Fwiw, I haven't heard the lastest 6 or 700 series, but I definitely wouldn't describe the 800 series models as boom and tizz machines, although I agree that the treble is slightly hot on-axis.
The problem, which applies to most large floor-standers these days is that contemporary music - recorded and mastered with lots of bass and treble boost is highly incompatible with everything apart from narrow band ear buds.
"Bose " and yes the new 800 series is just that ,recessed ambivalent midrange and revoltingly bad tweeter . Why , on earth would anyone have to futz with crossover on statement product from respected company? My friend bough Nautilus 802 and had at the same time French Cabasse Iroise speakers . Since he was not so sure about B&W and needed a support to support his purchase decision he asked EVERY friend who came into house to pick his favorite . You know , not a one preferred B&W although it is a preferred choice of gay interior designers (no pun , just a reality) . You know what my friend did ? He disregarded the populous vote and kept B&W because they have "more audiophile appeal" and his neighbors and friends don't know what the audiophile sound is.
At the end they are OK speakers and I heard statement Naut 800 with big Mcintosh amps doing quite wonderful choral recordings . At least they are not afraid to use big woofers and have really classy design.
At the end they are OK speakers and I heard statement Naut 800 with big Mcintosh amps doing quite wonderful choral recordings . At least they are not afraid to use big woofers and have really classy design.
I don't agree that B&W's tweeters are "revoltingly bad", to the contrary actually, but I agree that the crossover design creates a voicing that won't appeal to everyone, and a polar response that doesn't lend itself to many domestic settings.
That said, now that I've fine tuned my crossovers as well as the listening environment, I wouldn't swap my 800's for anything.
Since you've mentioned Mcintosh amps, as much as the brand is revered by many, I'll add that I'm not personally a big fan.
Limono, I think you are generalizing a bit!
About revolting treble on the diamond series I don't agree with you. I said I have listened to the 802Diamond and was a disappointment but it wasn't revolting and I believe that after Art tweaked the crossover the sound is now spot on.
I understand it's not right having to tweak a top of the line XO to have proper sound. I can tell you that the older series doesn't have this problem and especially signature sounds coherent from top to bottom in and off axes.
But now you are saying that even Nautilus 802 has a revolting treble and this makes me wonder what kind of system you listen to at home or what system were the 802 connected to.
I haven't listened to Cabasse Iroise speakers myself so I can't comment.
I can tell you straight out how important it is with a good speakers such as B&W to connect them to excellent amplification and I am not surprised that N800 sounded very good with big Mcintosh amp.
If you haven't listened to a top 800 with a top amplifier such as a pass XA200.5 (8) or a XS300 top preamp such as Pass XS and great either analog source or digital source you are missing something.
You have no idea what an 800 is capable of doing if properly driven.
I was just talking to the the guy who designs CAT (Convergent) and also the person who was showing his stuff and he mentioned how good the Sig800 is and at the same time how hard it is to drive it to make its great qualities shine.
They mentioned that in order to show it properly you will have to be ready to connect it the best amp capable of going down to 2ohm and delivering huge power.
I can tell you from experience, that there were few system at the audio show that could even get close to the performance I have at my house.
About revolting treble on the diamond series I don't agree with you. I said I have listened to the 802Diamond and was a disappointment but it wasn't revolting and I believe that after Art tweaked the crossover the sound is now spot on.
I understand it's not right having to tweak a top of the line XO to have proper sound. I can tell you that the older series doesn't have this problem and especially signature sounds coherent from top to bottom in and off axes.
But now you are saying that even Nautilus 802 has a revolting treble and this makes me wonder what kind of system you listen to at home or what system were the 802 connected to.
I haven't listened to Cabasse Iroise speakers myself so I can't comment.
I can tell you straight out how important it is with a good speakers such as B&W to connect them to excellent amplification and I am not surprised that N800 sounded very good with big Mcintosh amp.
If you haven't listened to a top 800 with a top amplifier such as a pass XA200.5 (8) or a XS300 top preamp such as Pass XS and great either analog source or digital source you are missing something.
You have no idea what an 800 is capable of doing if properly driven.
I was just talking to the the guy who designs CAT (Convergent) and also the person who was showing his stuff and he mentioned how good the Sig800 is and at the same time how hard it is to drive it to make its great qualities shine.
They mentioned that in order to show it properly you will have to be ready to connect it the best amp capable of going down to 2ohm and delivering huge power.
I can tell you from experience, that there were few system at the audio show that could even get close to the performance I have at my house.
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Pass uses 2 layer board not multilayer and it is really easy to service.
Of course if output stage is blown out, you will need matched parts which can only be supplied by the manufacturer unless you buy a bunch of them a replace all the output device and have proper equipment to match them to the manufacturer specs.
Front end board only has surface mount resistors which are very easy to service and you have a chance on one million that these resistors will blow.
XS amp is all through hole.
Regardless, Nelson Pass service is top quality and if you have any problem with it he will be really accessible and will either fix it or have his technician do it...so beside its great sonic qualities and build quality it is a great investment long term as service is top notch....get it with confidence!
To put it into perspective, prior to making the XO changes I definitely preferred my friend's Sig 800's to my Di 800's, but post changes I now definitely prefer my Di 800's, and I've spent some quality time in the past couple of weeks listening to both systems.
Art , Stefanoo
I heard most of B&W lineup except snail nautilus with different kind of amps and in different venues. Old and new matrix series . It is a hugely popular brand with equally huge marketing budget. It has big and loyal fan base and there must be a reason for this. Personally I never heard one B&W speaker I would like to take home. To each their own.
I have to apologize since I'm still living in the past when series 800 appeared to cost colossal sum of money. Actually, compared to what's pushed on today's High End audio they are reasonable proposition for what they offer and they are usually impeccably made and pushed with the right amp they have an impact and scale .
Rgrds, L
I heard most of B&W lineup except snail nautilus with different kind of amps and in different venues. Old and new matrix series . It is a hugely popular brand with equally huge marketing budget. It has big and loyal fan base and there must be a reason for this. Personally I never heard one B&W speaker I would like to take home. To each their own.
I have to apologize since I'm still living in the past when series 800 appeared to cost colossal sum of money. Actually, compared to what's pushed on today's High End audio they are reasonable proposition for what they offer and they are usually impeccably made and pushed with the right amp they have an impact and scale .
Rgrds, L
Thanks for that info.
Surface mount isn't a problem for me at all. My workshop is suitably equipped and I've racked up at least a thousand hours building SMD boards for RF related projects.
Then it is a really piece of cake to service them
They are built so that they can be put easily apart...so again buy with confidence....I am sure you will love the XA200.8...it's nothing short that a wonderful amp!
Reason is simpler than what you think: they sound good!
Their value in this new economy of high end big shots is incredibly good IMO.
I just have listened to a 200K speaker that sounded like crap.
I have also heard JBL Everest and many other speakers way more than twice as much the price tag of my 800 that don't sound any better to the point to make me scream or say that I could rediscover well known recordings.
That tells me that it doesn't get much better than that.
Obviously there every good speaker has different way of presenting the sound and here is where personal preference makes you choose one over the other.
I don't think it is a problem you don't like B&W but for you to say that is has a revolting treble is a bit extreme, don't you think so?
Plus you haven't answered to my question about what system you listen to at home!? It sounds like you taste is so elevate that you must posses very impressive gear.
Please share with me/us what you consider deserving of staying at your house.
Nothing elevated and I have a cheap taste and can't hear over 12kHz anymore For speakers I use an old Living Voice Avatar , for amp -cheap Audio Note 6v6 push pull Kit amp. I bought speaker cable in Wallmart just a garden extension cord . I do have an expensive turntables/arms /carts but I'm too lazy to play records lately and especially to clean them , I don't care for CD players much so old Sony and DIY Dac is all to make me fairly happy. Sometimes I pull old pair of Tannoy speakers or Celestion SL600 to burry myself in Brit sound. I would not change that system for Vivid Giya nor for top B&W nautilus and load of Krell amps...I closed that door years ago and simply have no need for trophy audio .There is a specific type of "aspiring and trendy" people who buy the new B&W speakers and alike. Once you get older Stefanoo you will relax and won't have a burning desire to defend your choices no matter what. They are what they are and its nobody's business really.If sounds good to you , it's good -simple as that.I think that in a few years I may not have any audio system just a good table radio. Maybe it will force me to see more live performances.
Warm Regards, L