Individual "taste" as to what is considered required SPL for musical playback and even domestic movie playback is also real, and for many folks levels for the latter well below the THX standard is deemed quite acceptable.
When I want to experience a full body immersion assault on my senses, I'll go to the theatre, as I recently did with "Intersteallar" at the local IMAX - 60ft tall screen and 10K Watts of digital surround. Even then, there were times at which it was hard to tell whether you were hearing all those JBL woofers overloading / amps clipping or it was supposed to sound that way.
Did my home rig sound like a constipated transistor radio when I got home?
Actually, at 80db average, no
edit:
Would either of my systems satisfy the diehard extreme HT enthusiast, or audiophile purist?
Not likely, but thankfully, I don't need to answer to them
When I want to experience a full body immersion assault on my senses, I'll go to the theatre, as I recently did with "Intersteallar" at the local IMAX - 60ft tall screen and 10K Watts of digital surround. Even then, there were times at which it was hard to tell whether you were hearing all those JBL woofers overloading / amps clipping or it was supposed to sound that way.
Did my home rig sound like a constipated transistor radio when I got home?
Actually, at 80db average, no
edit:
Would either of my systems satisfy the diehard extreme HT enthusiast, or audiophile purist?
Not likely, but thankfully, I don't need to answer to them
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Chris came over with the boxes and we had a first listen to these today.
Note that my whole system has degraded DDR & fidelity due to having to move to my back-up DAC.
The only thing we had in a similar class were my uFonkenSET (FF85wKeN). It was like shooting fish in a barrel. The uFonken went lower, WAY better image/sound stage, had considerably greater DDR,
Now it is a but unfair as:
1/ the Vifa have just 3-500 hr low level break-in on the bench vrs many more real-world hrs on the uFonken.
2/the FF85wKeN are in an optimum box, there is no optimum box for the VIFA (maybe a large aperiodic box)
3/ FF85wKeN are EnABLed and matched ($170/pr) and the matching across 4 VIFA was quite poor and they are stock (~25 USD)
I will take the Vifa down to the office and get them some more break-in time, and i will EnABL the other pair (maing them $120/pr drivers)
My personal take is that the FF85wKeN at $170/pr are better bang for the buck than the $25/pr Vifa.
We also listened to the new CHN70 in Frugel-Horn Mk3. At $54/pr they really rank up there in bang for the buck value. Real bass, greater DDR, greater versatility.
dave
The box makes a big difference. What box did you use for the TC9FD? A comparison cannot be made until they are both in similar alignments. In an 0.4x Karlsonator they go easily down to 60Hz.
To get away from the bass extension which is so dependent on box alignment - I suggest either sealed for both and use in FAST. If in a vented alignment both should be similarly tuned - and I know that with the higher Qts, the TC9FD will go lower than the FF85Wk.
I think what you call DDR is perhaps enhanced audibility of micro detail - which may be related to cone breakup peaks that result in a ringing impulse response (IR). I suspect ringing IR is the really what gives some drivers more detail that really isn't in the recording. It may sound pleasant (like how many folks like 2nd order harmonic distorion from tube amps) but it is not authentic. Listen to what the impulse response from a driver that rings like a bell vs a driver that has a clean IR here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/269391-usefulness-room-measurements-vs-no-measurements-ref-fh-3.html#post4217091
I think that it is tantamount to an 'acoustical aftertaste'. But a quick measurement of the freq response, harmonic distortion, and inpulse response would clear all these up.
Back to the Vifa driver's value / performance ratio
yup, for the price this little guy does so very little wrong that it's hard to fault its popularity - but in the listening session described above - and this won't be the first time I've mentioned it - I was much more impressed with the CHN70
yup, for the price this little guy does so very little wrong that it's hard to fault its popularity - but in the listening session described above - and this won't be the first time I've mentioned it - I was much more impressed with the CHN70
The CHN70 does look nice with a metal basket and low profile bezel that doesn't require a deep rebate - but most of all, no huge breakup peaks characteristic of the aluminum cone MA's.
A 5.5 litre sealed box. With its high Q and high Fs one is pretty well hand tied as to box alignments. Withoit electronic preempasis one is pretty much tied to alignments that have at least one lump at the bottom. A big, well executed aperiodic box may help with the bass, but as long as one has a box that does not introduce too many diffraction artifacts or relections is should not substantially affect the midrange where the music libes and this driver, in its current state of break-in, shows its greatest weaknesses. I'll get aome more break-in time on them and we'll see where they are. They should improve/
The milliSize box is well proven to be able to provide a very good speaker with various drivers.
dave
Off-topic split off to http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...t-current-speaker-measurement-technology.html 
I have a CHN70 on order - will test and post results once I get it. I am thinking of the following alignments (might not be able to do all):
1. open baffle as a reference
2. sealed spiral Nautaloss or sealed prismatic box
3. short dagger vented TL
4. Karlsonator ~0.44x
5. XKi
Freq response, harmonic distortion up to 5th harmonic, impulse response, and polar response to start.
We can then compare with TC9FD, 3FE22/25, RS100P/RS100-4
1. open baffle as a reference
2. sealed spiral Nautaloss or sealed prismatic box
3. short dagger vented TL
4. Karlsonator ~0.44x
5. XKi
Freq response, harmonic distortion up to 5th harmonic, impulse response, and polar response to start.
We can then compare with TC9FD, 3FE22/25, RS100P/RS100-4
Slothrop,
Over in Multi-Way have you seen member Melo theory have a project with TC9FD's http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...trolled-dispersion-tripole-9.html#post4157176.
xrk971,
Those test sounds interesting, looking forward.
Over in Multi-Way have you seen member Melo theory have a project with TC9FD's http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...trolled-dispersion-tripole-9.html#post4157176.
xrk971,
Those test sounds interesting, looking forward.
New PS95-8 driver from Dayton
Have you guys seen this? Looks like a lot of features for $24: cast frame, paper cone, inverted surround, copper shorting ring, phase plug. This might just be a re-branded Taiwanese "Air"?
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/295-349--dayton-audio-ps95-8-spec-sheet.pdf
Might prove to be an interesting driver.
Have you guys seen this? Looks like a lot of features for $24: cast frame, paper cone, inverted surround, copper shorting ring, phase plug. This might just be a re-branded Taiwanese "Air"?
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/295-349--dayton-audio-ps95-8-spec-sheet.pdf
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Might prove to be an interesting driver.
Looking forward to it X.
A great way of testing drivers would be to mount them in the floor and measure at a distance of about 2m at angles from 0 to 90 degrees. Other boundaries should be as far away as possible so we wouldn't need to gate measurements too early. That method would allow us to compare performance of drivers in an objective and meaningful way.
All those wide band Dayton's have a very uneven off-axis response. I suspect the phase plug is causing it. Maybe this one is better?
This one looks flatter than most full range drivers, but there is something suspicious going on near 2.2 kHz. Off-axis there is less of a hole than on-axis. Even the impedance has a peak in that region. Must be the phase plug. Otherwise the HF response is quite fixable.
Glad to see that the Dayton folks are presenting good quality measurements of their drivers. It's a 50 db scale with 5 db increments. And there is off-axis data. Good stuff.
Glad to see that the Dayton folks are presenting good quality measurements of their drivers. It's a 50 db scale with 5 db increments. And there is off-axis data. Good stuff.