I am determined to make something good out of this DAC. Others seem to sing it's praises but mine is stuck with the noise issue.
The supplier has not been much help, they keep offering me components and 'good discount' but each time i reply asking for the spec of the components and total price i get no reply. They did however advise that the noise I am getting might be due to the 9018 chip not being soldered correctly, and that I should resolder the pins myself! Not sure what to make of that, I think there would be more chance of a fix by replacing the caps in the power supply and output sections.
I am trying to order from Farnell components, but Wima 103 & 104 doesn't give me anything useful in the search. There are 43000 capacitors on that website, and I have spent hours and hours now looking at different ones but just don't know the differences or what I should order.
Can anyone who's done such a mod suggest the replacement components to use?
The supplier has not been much help, they keep offering me components and 'good discount' but each time i reply asking for the spec of the components and total price i get no reply. They did however advise that the noise I am getting might be due to the 9018 chip not being soldered correctly, and that I should resolder the pins myself! Not sure what to make of that, I think there would be more chance of a fix by replacing the caps in the power supply and output sections.
I am trying to order from Farnell components, but Wima 103 & 104 doesn't give me anything useful in the search. There are 43000 capacitors on that website, and I have spent hours and hours now looking at different ones but just don't know the differences or what I should order.
Can anyone who's done such a mod suggest the replacement components to use?
After spending some time with this dac I have tried a few different things.
First with opamps, now with transformer output.
I just added Jriver to my pc and have been ripping to flac files and it has brought my pc audio up very close to my vinyl rig. I am most encouraged.
This dac is not bad for the price, I bought the upgraded assembled board and transformer, under 200 usd.
Had some Cinemag and Altec 1:1 transformers on hand from another project, plus I bought a pair of Jensens. I need to do some more trans swapping but I think I like the altecs. Not huge differences really.
Nice sound stage, depth and width, good detail, very listenable.
Cheers
Ed
First with opamps, now with transformer output.
I just added Jriver to my pc and have been ripping to flac files and it has brought my pc audio up very close to my vinyl rig. I am most encouraged.
This dac is not bad for the price, I bought the upgraded assembled board and transformer, under 200 usd.
Had some Cinemag and Altec 1:1 transformers on hand from another project, plus I bought a pair of Jensens. I need to do some more trans swapping but I think I like the altecs. Not huge differences really.
Nice sound stage, depth and width, good detail, very listenable.
Cheers
Ed
What did you settle on for opamps?
I have LME49710/20 in mine. The sound of the DAC even with standard caps is pretty good, I just want to get rid of this noise. Could it be simply the fact that I haven't put the board in a case yet, it's still on the bench? Has anyone else had digital noise problems? First thing to try might be a grounded foil shield over the 9018 chip.
I have bought some Wima and Panasonic caps, just waiting til I have the courage to swap all the components out.
I have LME49710/20 in mine. The sound of the DAC even with standard caps is pretty good, I just want to get rid of this noise. Could it be simply the fact that I haven't put the board in a case yet, it's still on the bench? Has anyone else had digital noise problems? First thing to try might be a grounded foil shield over the 9018 chip.
I have bought some Wima and Panasonic caps, just waiting til I have the courage to swap all the components out.
Looking at the PCB (#142), you will have a job making it quiet, it looks like a 2 layer design and not a very good one at that (and that is being polite). No ground plane, no chance of getting it quiet. It should be at least a 4 layer design to even be considered high end. There is nothing you can do to improve this design, the basic layout is rubbish to start with.
I do not have any noise with this dac and it is mounted on standoffs and just sitting on peace of wood right now. I wanted to test the digital world cheaply before dumping.money into a high.end project.
Also no no opamps at this point opt's sound much better.
Do you still have no noise when the gain is turned right the way up on your amp? Mine is connected directly to power amps without a pre or any other analogue attenuation in between.
I would most likely never turn my volume knob to max at any time.
I have 96db Lowther drivers that I don't want to kill.
I use a tube pre made by Modright and 2A3 ampliers.
No noise at fairly high volume setting no but the way the system is matched the normal listening levels ( for me) of 70 to 80 db averages is at the about the 11 oclock position.
I suspect you have some other issues and may need to let us know how you have it all configured.
Ed
I've own this dac board, (v1.1 slightly different), 2 layer board with software control, direct order from weilang.
After 3months of listening, no pops(with CM6631a), so far the sound is fantastic for this amount of money.
Had 49720na as I/V and AD797br for LPF. did a few mods, but some mods i had undo it since it upset the balance of mids.
-Replace Opamp PS cap, 2 large ELNA 12000uf and downsize to Nichicon KG 6800uf
-Replace 317/337 from On-semi to LT317/337
-Replace opamp feedback caps from Soshin 100p to other brand
-Replace s/pdif input cap from TRW 0.01uf to soshin QS30 10nf
-Replace 103s near opamp(came with ERO), too harsh, changed to ecops.
-Replace opamp PS dioide snubber cap* with BC370 MKP.
*i find those green ero 103/104 sounds horrible.
And there is a new one came out again ...😱 with 4 layers PCB
After 3months of listening, no pops(with CM6631a), so far the sound is fantastic for this amount of money.
Had 49720na as I/V and AD797br for LPF. did a few mods, but some mods i had undo it since it upset the balance of mids.
-Replace Opamp PS cap, 2 large ELNA 12000uf and downsize to Nichicon KG 6800uf
-Replace 317/337 from On-semi to LT317/337
-Replace opamp feedback caps from Soshin 100p to other brand
-Replace s/pdif input cap from TRW 0.01uf to soshin QS30 10nf
-Replace 103s near opamp(came with ERO), too harsh, changed to ecops.
-Replace opamp PS dioide snubber cap* with BC370 MKP.
*i find those green ero 103/104 sounds horrible.
And there is a new one came out again ...😱 with 4 layers PCB
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I'm looking for a multichannel (6 or 8 channel) DAC with diff. balanced outputs...
the following looks like exactly what I want.., but beyond my price range...
exaSound Audio Design > e28 DAC > e28 DAC
the Buffalo is something that will need work putting it together and could run more than $600 total for the following:
A buffalo module and power supply for it (placid ps)
An IVY III linestage and power supply for it (placid bipolar ps)
A reciever board (USB, s/pdif or s/pdif/toslink unit)
Two transformers (2x15v for ivy, 2x9v for buffalo) (tpa sell them too)
Wiring, connectors (iec, rca etc) and a case
The AKM doesn't look bad - but the performance figures aren't as good as the e28 or Buffalo
http://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/datasheet1/?partno=AK4358VQ
Are there any other options... (I've already looked at products from Lynx, RME, Fireface, Digigram, Motu, M-Audio, Roland, Behringer etc)
Ideally - I'd like to have someone experienced make a custom DAC with 3 or 4 Sabre ES9018 chips (even though its a 8 channel chip - I'd like to use it as a stereo DAC for better THD and Dynamics) and the best quality components for the power and line stages with gold plated XLR or miniXLR outputs.
If the E9018 is not the best DAC chip - may be something from TI/BurrBrown would work...
Is there anyone out there who can design and build the ultimate multichannel DAC for me - cost being no object...but obviously well below the exasound e28 price range
the following looks like exactly what I want.., but beyond my price range...
exaSound Audio Design > e28 DAC > e28 DAC
the Buffalo is something that will need work putting it together and could run more than $600 total for the following:
A buffalo module and power supply for it (placid ps)
An IVY III linestage and power supply for it (placid bipolar ps)
A reciever board (USB, s/pdif or s/pdif/toslink unit)
Two transformers (2x15v for ivy, 2x9v for buffalo) (tpa sell them too)
Wiring, connectors (iec, rca etc) and a case
The AKM doesn't look bad - but the performance figures aren't as good as the e28 or Buffalo
http://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/datasheet1/?partno=AK4358VQ
Are there any other options... (I've already looked at products from Lynx, RME, Fireface, Digigram, Motu, M-Audio, Roland, Behringer etc)
Ideally - I'd like to have someone experienced make a custom DAC with 3 or 4 Sabre ES9018 chips (even though its a 8 channel chip - I'd like to use it as a stereo DAC for better THD and Dynamics) and the best quality components for the power and line stages with gold plated XLR or miniXLR outputs.
If the E9018 is not the best DAC chip - may be something from TI/BurrBrown would work...
Is there anyone out there who can design and build the ultimate multichannel DAC for me - cost being no object...but obviously well below the exasound e28 price range
Another kit from China seller-
ES9018 32bit 192kHz Hi End DAC Optical Coax and Balanced Output DIY Kit | eBay
Completed-
Assembled Board ES9018 32bit 192kHz Hi End DAC Optical Coax and Balanced Output | eBay
Upgrade Assembled Board ESS ES9018 32bit 192kHz DAC Optical Coaxial by Weiliang | eBay
ES9018 32bit 192kHz Hi End DAC Optical Coax and Balanced Output DIY Kit | eBay
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Completed-
Assembled Board ES9018 32bit 192kHz Hi End DAC Optical Coax and Balanced Output | eBay
Upgrade Assembled Board ESS ES9018 32bit 192kHz DAC Optical Coaxial by Weiliang | eBay
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Weiliang DAC
I just ordered a 4 layer weiliang es9018 4 layer dac with the xmos card(post #168) to compare with my other weiliang dac's. A dac5 and two dac7's. They all use the wm8741. IMHO The op amp circuits are the biggest flaw with these kits. If you reduce the biasing on the op amps this clears things up substantially, or better yet try a different V/I converter or transformer output setup. The i2s is really easy to tap into. If you look at the dac5 there is 4 resistors in a row, and on the dac7 there is 8 resistors (for the dual wm8741) beside the TCXO. The capacitors on these units are very poor. But easily removed with a good soldering iron. The traces are reasonably tough, I've had really good success cleaning out the holes with a round tooth pick and some wick for the gobs.
Put organic's on the digital supply's and silmic ii on the analog. The dac7 used 15 caps without the opamp circuit.
I still have to try changing the TCXO and putting some 0.1uf smd's closer to the pins. ( something the new 4 layer es9018 has )
The 7pin XMOS usb works natively in OSX without a driver.
The 10 pin XMOS usb should work as well.
I have compared the modded dac7 to a Teac UD-501 and ended up returning the Teac shortly after letting it break in. It wasn't even close. The dac7 sounds very close to my analog source. DL-103 with a Jolida JD-9.
Overall I am really happy with the dac7. Sure out of the box it was nothing special but with a little bit of intuition and a hot iron you can have a lot of fun and create something special, the problem is the addiction that follows and the need to posses more than one just to test your results. Best of all is the price, I could have bought a buffalo or opus DAC but then I'd only have one instead of four and wouldn't have learned so much. I'm all for DIY but for $14 for them to build it and test it, due to the lack of support I'd rather start with a working piece and then at least I have an idea of what and where I messed up.
I am not affiliated with Weiliang Audio and Audio is just a hobby for me.
Here's what I purged from my second dac7 yesterday and now it's singing its little hart out.
I just ordered a 4 layer weiliang es9018 4 layer dac with the xmos card(post #168) to compare with my other weiliang dac's. A dac5 and two dac7's. They all use the wm8741. IMHO The op amp circuits are the biggest flaw with these kits. If you reduce the biasing on the op amps this clears things up substantially, or better yet try a different V/I converter or transformer output setup. The i2s is really easy to tap into. If you look at the dac5 there is 4 resistors in a row, and on the dac7 there is 8 resistors (for the dual wm8741) beside the TCXO. The capacitors on these units are very poor. But easily removed with a good soldering iron. The traces are reasonably tough, I've had really good success cleaning out the holes with a round tooth pick and some wick for the gobs.
Put organic's on the digital supply's and silmic ii on the analog. The dac7 used 15 caps without the opamp circuit.
I still have to try changing the TCXO and putting some 0.1uf smd's closer to the pins. ( something the new 4 layer es9018 has )
The 7pin XMOS usb works natively in OSX without a driver.
The 10 pin XMOS usb should work as well.
I have compared the modded dac7 to a Teac UD-501 and ended up returning the Teac shortly after letting it break in. It wasn't even close. The dac7 sounds very close to my analog source. DL-103 with a Jolida JD-9.
Overall I am really happy with the dac7. Sure out of the box it was nothing special but with a little bit of intuition and a hot iron you can have a lot of fun and create something special, the problem is the addiction that follows and the need to posses more than one just to test your results. Best of all is the price, I could have bought a buffalo or opus DAC but then I'd only have one instead of four and wouldn't have learned so much. I'm all for DIY but for $14 for them to build it and test it, due to the lack of support I'd rather start with a working piece and then at least I have an idea of what and where I messed up.
I am not affiliated with Weiliang Audio and Audio is just a hobby for me.
Here's what I purged from my second dac7 yesterday and now it's singing its little hart out.
Attachments
I have the exact DAC pictured above; black pcb form seller minishow0328 and am still looking at improving the thing.
Mine came with some crappy components, so I replaced the large 35v 4700uF power supply caps with 50v 6800uF Phillips and bass suddenly became clearer and more punchy.
I then replaced 10 of the 104 caps with Wima MKS. Slightly better detail but the thing is still very noisy and sounds a bit grainy.
Dan, you seem to be quite hot on this. Can you tell me which of the other components on that board are critical to the sound and worth an upgrade?
I bought a load of new 10uF electrolytic caps to replace the 10 situated around the opamps but not even sure if this is going to help.
When buying the board I opted for the upgraded TXCO crystal and then spent $50 on LME49710/20 opamps with long legs. Maybe this is the source of the noise?
Mine came with some crappy components, so I replaced the large 35v 4700uF power supply caps with 50v 6800uF Phillips and bass suddenly became clearer and more punchy.
I then replaced 10 of the 104 caps with Wima MKS. Slightly better detail but the thing is still very noisy and sounds a bit grainy.
Dan, you seem to be quite hot on this. Can you tell me which of the other components on that board are critical to the sound and worth an upgrade?
I bought a load of new 10uF electrolytic caps to replace the 10 situated around the opamps but not even sure if this is going to help.
When buying the board I opted for the upgraded TXCO crystal and then spent $50 on LME49710/20 opamps with long legs. Maybe this is the source of the noise?
I really like the dac 7 with Transformer output. The es9018 is also capable of Transformer output.
On the DAC7 (using op amps) I replaced 4 op amp biasing resistors from 1k7 to 4k7.
1k7 was way to much load for the op-amps I was using. There should be one on each side of the Opamp. I don't have your board or schematic so you'll have to polk around and research opamp biasing to class A. This is a rather large improvement that I stumbled across for the dac7. You could probably just snip them out of the circuit and notice a gain in SQ.
Replace all of the cap types that you see in my photo. The blue round ones need better organic caps and use silmic ii for the rest. I have a feeling that the blue square ones are not doing the dac any favors and the hole spacing can be utilized to place much larger caps into the circuit. Then you can just use a SMD ceramic for proper 0.1uF decoupling as per IC white papers.
I am still using the big blue BC caps that it came with because I'm to cheap. I think you'll find a larger improvement by replacing the smaller ones closes to the IC's
These caps were the largest value with proper spacing.
Organics:
os-con sep, sepc, sepf?
120uF/10v
56uf/10V (I used just one of these to fit under the XMOS card)
silmic ii:
10uf/35v
100uf/35v
ceramic:
0.1uF NP0 0805 (2mm long) 1206 (3mm long)
Good luck and have fun.
On the DAC7 (using op amps) I replaced 4 op amp biasing resistors from 1k7 to 4k7.
1k7 was way to much load for the op-amps I was using. There should be one on each side of the Opamp. I don't have your board or schematic so you'll have to polk around and research opamp biasing to class A. This is a rather large improvement that I stumbled across for the dac7. You could probably just snip them out of the circuit and notice a gain in SQ.
Replace all of the cap types that you see in my photo. The blue round ones need better organic caps and use silmic ii for the rest. I have a feeling that the blue square ones are not doing the dac any favors and the hole spacing can be utilized to place much larger caps into the circuit. Then you can just use a SMD ceramic for proper 0.1uF decoupling as per IC white papers.
I am still using the big blue BC caps that it came with because I'm to cheap. I think you'll find a larger improvement by replacing the smaller ones closes to the IC's
These caps were the largest value with proper spacing.
Organics:
os-con sep, sepc, sepf?
120uF/10v
56uf/10V (I used just one of these to fit under the XMOS card)
silmic ii:
10uf/35v
100uf/35v
ceramic:
0.1uF NP0 0805 (2mm long) 1206 (3mm long)
Good luck and have fun.
v1.1 DAC 4 layer
So I now have the V1.1 playing in my system. It is a nicely built unit with the best components that I've seen from Weiliang. IMHO it is lacking in the low frequency output compared to my modified DAC7. I have a hunch that the power supplies are not sufficient, but i'd like to let it burn in a little more before I start tweaking.
The output stage on the V1.1 is more simple in comparison to the dac7. From what I can tell so far the V1.1 has no biasing unlike the DAC7.
Both The V1.1 and DAC7 benefit greatly from using a transformer output.
So I now have the V1.1 playing in my system. It is a nicely built unit with the best components that I've seen from Weiliang. IMHO it is lacking in the low frequency output compared to my modified DAC7. I have a hunch that the power supplies are not sufficient, but i'd like to let it burn in a little more before I start tweaking.
The output stage on the V1.1 is more simple in comparison to the dac7. From what I can tell so far the V1.1 has no biasing unlike the DAC7.
Both The V1.1 and DAC7 benefit greatly from using a transformer output.
V1.1 es9018
So I've replaced the V1.1 with the moded DAC7 and am now enjoying better clarity and focus, when a bass guitar is plucked you get the hint of the string being released, and the cymbals are more accurate with less scratch-ring when brushed. Both units have the same single ended transformer outputs, XMOS-usb cards (10pin vs 7pin)and R-core supply. So the comparison is very accurate.
The es9018 V1.1 has really great features. The display has source, sampling rate and volume, all controlled by three buttons. The PCB has balanced output peripherals and I2s input through the 10pin card slot. The es9018 is software interfaced through a 5 pin ribbon using a atmega8l-8pu. These are all advantages over the very basic DAC7.
The next step for me is to try changing the v1.1 capacitors in hopes of at least matching the DAC7. Time will tell.
So I've replaced the V1.1 with the moded DAC7 and am now enjoying better clarity and focus, when a bass guitar is plucked you get the hint of the string being released, and the cymbals are more accurate with less scratch-ring when brushed. Both units have the same single ended transformer outputs, XMOS-usb cards (10pin vs 7pin)and R-core supply. So the comparison is very accurate.
The es9018 V1.1 has really great features. The display has source, sampling rate and volume, all controlled by three buttons. The PCB has balanced output peripherals and I2s input through the 10pin card slot. The es9018 is software interfaced through a 5 pin ribbon using a atmega8l-8pu. These are all advantages over the very basic DAC7.
The next step for me is to try changing the v1.1 capacitors in hopes of at least matching the DAC7. Time will tell.
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I've been enjoying my dac5 for about a year and a half now.
I used it for a while as is, then began swapping out capacitors. The oscons for digital, left the silmics near the opamps, then sprung for some mundorf in the power supply.
The biggest change was from from replacing all of the epcos .1 uf with some roederstein mkp.
Most had to be stuffed from under the board.
I also removed the biasing resistor before trying different op amps, the only one I tried was the opa627, and it worked really well with some biasing, just not nearly as much as was there to begin with. I've since found a pair of Bursons for a deal, and they work nice without any biasing. The dac5 has a servo for any dc offset, and an lm49720ha sounds great there, thanks to a tip from another diyaudio member.
I'd like to maybe try and raise the voltage on the analog regulators next, to see if it makes an improvement.
I've always wondered how the dac5 compares with the 7 myself, and am too cheap to just go out and buy a dac7, knowing I would likely end up sprinkling it with $$$ as well.
I used it for a while as is, then began swapping out capacitors. The oscons for digital, left the silmics near the opamps, then sprung for some mundorf in the power supply.
The biggest change was from from replacing all of the epcos .1 uf with some roederstein mkp.
Most had to be stuffed from under the board.
I also removed the biasing resistor before trying different op amps, the only one I tried was the opa627, and it worked really well with some biasing, just not nearly as much as was there to begin with. I've since found a pair of Bursons for a deal, and they work nice without any biasing. The dac5 has a servo for any dc offset, and an lm49720ha sounds great there, thanks to a tip from another diyaudio member.
I'd like to maybe try and raise the voltage on the analog regulators next, to see if it makes an improvement.
I've always wondered how the dac5 compares with the 7 myself, and am too cheap to just go out and buy a dac7, knowing I would likely end up sprinkling it with $$$ as well.
Thanks Phase,
I'll have to try the LM49720 on the servo for my next project.
After replacing just 4 of the roederstein eg caps on the v1.1, WOW what a difference. The ROE's are awful! The fatuging top end is now gone and we are now very close to the DAC 7 for sound.
I am truly enjoying the digital source selector on the V1.1, it also has a slow-fast slope filter that I failed to mention earlier.
Another thing that impresses me, is the muting on the es9018. Being virtually silent unlike the wm8805-wm8741 combo that clicks when the sample rate changes.
I'll have to try the LM49720 on the servo for my next project.
After replacing just 4 of the roederstein eg caps on the v1.1, WOW what a difference. The ROE's are awful! The fatuging top end is now gone and we are now very close to the DAC 7 for sound.
I am truly enjoying the digital source selector on the V1.1, it also has a slow-fast slope filter that I failed to mention earlier.
Another thing that impresses me, is the muting on the es9018. Being virtually silent unlike the wm8805-wm8741 combo that clicks when the sample rate changes.
damuffin, thanks for sharing your experiences. To get the best out of the ES9018, you need to feed it with an ultra clean power supply (Avcc). How about upgrading whatever regulators are used? Same for the oscillator.
Also, are you feeding the transformer directly from the DAC chip? It will probably work better fed from the I/V op-amps via small (say 22r) resistors. Plus the ES9018 works best in I/V mode.
Also, are you feeding the transformer directly from the DAC chip? It will probably work better fed from the I/V op-amps via small (say 22r) resistors. Plus the ES9018 works best in I/V mode.