When sweating those large or small copper pipes that have had water in them remember that white bread is your friend! Take the crust off and wad up a piece of bread and stuff it up the pipe, it will absorb any water dripping down and cooling off the joint so it will solder cleanly and not have holes. An old plumbers trick. The bread will just dissolve and you can forget about it. Don't use something like whole wheat or anything with seeds, not a good idea!
It isn't fair nor accurate to change the context to that degree. No doubt the authors were confining themselves to electronics applications. I submit that the purpose of plumbing solder is to seal at least as much as (and probably more than) permanent connection.
But huge props to the sharkbite inventor(s).
Thank you
(these miniature switches…@#$!)
Good for bringing this up.
Plumping work is the school to help training for soldering electronic components.
There, one can see all the soldering action and the problems, magnified in time and physical size.
George
Triodethom,
The only other good thing white bread is good for is an old fashioned BLT sandwich. Otherwise I never eat that stuff!
ps. Don't forget the wet rag for wiping down your copper pipe joints, makes all the difference in how the final product looks.
The only other good thing white bread is good for is an old fashioned BLT sandwich. Otherwise I never eat that stuff!
ps. Don't forget the wet rag for wiping down your copper pipe joints, makes all the difference in how the final product looks.
Who said life was fair??😉
My point is, off eutectic is not bad despite what they say. It's important to understand the technology first.
For my work, I needed to learn about all the various solders, and what they do. If they wish to confine their discussion to electronics, they first should state such, and provide caveats as to what exactly they mean, as there are lots of applications requiring off eutectic formulations. They should try 50/50 lead indium for example. It is used in military hybrid work as a soft solder die attach for large power semi's. Generally, it's the last step in a multi-step soldering process, with gold/tin and gold/germanium used previously.
We had 600 power supplies start down that intermittent path, so I had to figure out why the switches were doing that. Since I had the binocular scope, I was "volunteered" to find the root cause.
I believe it to be a good thing for all to learn.
jn
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JN,
I am not sure if you are kidding or not but I have always used a wet rag to wipe the solder joint of a copper pipe connection after you solder it. Immediately wipe it with a nice wet rag and it will look much nicer and shinny. This I was shown years ago by a plumber doing copper pipe work. I have always done it since. the final product just looks worlds better than just letting the joint cool down without a wipe.
I am not sure if you are kidding or not but I have always used a wet rag to wipe the solder joint of a copper pipe connection after you solder it. Immediately wipe it with a nice wet rag and it will look much nicer and shinny. This I was shown years ago by a plumber doing copper pipe work. I have always done it since. the final product just looks worlds better than just letting the joint cool down without a wipe.
I spoke to a friend whom I have known for the last 45 years, who first got me to use SN63 solder, 40+ years ago.
He said: "An experienced solderer can probably handle SN60 OK, it is just his apprentices that will have big problems". Sounds OK to me.
He said: "An experienced solderer can probably handle SN60 OK, it is just his apprentices that will have big problems". Sounds OK to me.
Be delighted. Jan will be here in 3 weeks. Email me using the button on my profile.
Who said we were talking about life?🙂
Effective communication isn't that difficult, nor should it be.
And if you read the page I quoted, it is plain to see the context of the authors' soldering article.
Die attachment??
I think you have it backwards. It's when discussing a specialized segment of a broad concept, then it is necessary to first state such and provide caveats as to what exactly is meant.
Thanks for that information, and sorry to hear. Another prominent name in audio in a short time.
Brad
EDIT: Yes: http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...er-ray-dolby-has-died-20130912,0,254453.story
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Yes, I'm kidding, I really don't have the fire dept on speed dial..😀. I wipe as well using a wet cloth. I'll also use wet cloth if I'm working in close proximity to items which are heat sensitive. Wipe technique is of course a learned process, as overhead joints allow you the pleasure of creating loose droplets of liquid solder, clearly destined for whatever exposed part of the body is there. Ah, forgot to mention..tin/silver is so much closer to eutectic than 50/50, wiping tin/silver is always wiping thin liquid, whereas wiping 50/50 tin lead is wiping a higher viscosity slurry. And when I wipe too close to solid it gets grainy, I just wave the torch at it, it smooths out. But, 50/50..not so much in the way of droplets to burn me.
An experienced solderer will handle 60/40 perfectly. That's what experience is all about. An apprentice will have difficulty with all solder alloys, that's what mentoring is all about.
Ah, ok. I heard "not fair", so immediately thought..."my life".😀
Your telling that to an engineer??? Seems like a waste of time, no??😉
You pasted a quote from that article out of the context of the article, and embedded it within the context of our discussion. It needs to be understood that insertion of another's text within context elsewhere may not be precise..
Then you've understood my point. Context.
The use of 60/40 is trivially easy in lieu of 63/37. People here have given anecdotal statements regarding how difficult it is because it's off eutectic.. Ed mentioned rate of failure from his testing, yet the switch also entails a different flux chemistry, and possibly a different age (shelf life) of the material he used. Ah, let's not forget, I read in this thread somewhere that the use of 60/40 was a cost saving, that it costs more to make eutectic. If that is the case, then why would we assume that the same cost cutting measure didn't apply to the flux???
I"ve had poor results with year old solder, I've had great results using decade old solder. And the other way around as well. Simple changes in process or materials and simple result changes do not necessarily indicate causation, nor even correlation if the sample size is small..
That's why I chuckle when people talk about how adding silver or copper to solder to prevent leaching during hand soldering. If you want to determine the viability of those things, the process must be under strict control. Hand soldering is not that, it is a process relying on the expertise of the individual, and the flux, feed rate, method of application are all tailored via active visual feedback.
That's why I discussed soldering techniques using tin/silver. It's sufficiently different that it's worth discussing, especially with ROHS there.
jn
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JN, trivializing the life experience of others does nothing but confuse the issue of good soldering practices for audio amateurs and small audio companies alike.
To directly REFUTE the info on the internet, Manko's book: 'Solders and Soldering' and practical and successful experience from people with even MORE experience than you, does little for your credibility.
To directly REFUTE the info on the internet, Manko's book: 'Solders and Soldering' and practical and successful experience from people with even MORE experience than you, does little for your credibility.
CW or CC north of the equator?
I'm beginning to give up on USB sound cards for really good measurements even with a null bridge. Their internal crosstalk in full duplex mode is just too much to get repeatability.
BTW something folks might miss. To use my sound card as a tone I loop a small file continuously. This forces a fixed pattern to the dither and FFT averaging fails to lower the noise flloor beyond a certain point.
Nor does this sort of personal attack do much for yours. FWIW, I'm agnostic on the issue, but used 60/40 successfully for decades, starting with my first project, about 50 years ago. I use the 2% silver now for optics.
When doing thousands of joints the solder does not get very old. I typically order three pounds at a time so as to do the 5 turns a year.
Actually the brand of solder we use has the same flux in all the solders. (Almost always 63/37 in different diameters, except for 60/40 in bars.) It is a locally made brand! At first it was a bit of a strain to get away from name brands until I realized the quality was excellent, the price was actually slightly higher, but the shipping was much lower.
Now my understanding was when wave soldering first came in there were a few joint failures until they switched to 63/37.
My opinion is that solder quality, solder diameter, tip diameter and temperature are the real issues.
Now as to making a firm mechanical joint and then heating the joint and not the solder, you just might be surprised to find higher rates of joint failure.
Sharp mechanical bends are a good place for crystallization to start, a bit of solder on the tip provides much better heat transfer due to the increased contact area. However the tip solder does need to be cleaned off and replaced often.
So now the prudent will look at soldering sponges vs brass shavings.
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