It doesn't need to have any of those things. It just needs to have these things below the threshold of audibility, which is an easy task outside of fashion audio.
There is the question, Is HIFI the pursuit of realistic sound?
Or is it measured performance?
Yes the two should go hand in hand. If this was the case then as soon as a perfect measured system is created its job done.
Trouble is Low distortion was done years ago. Was it popular?
Of course it was...then people moved on..LOL
Regards
M. Gregg
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Please refer to my comments on the forum started by Dangwei about speakers being designed to perform according to one's individual ear. some interesting comments and parallels between the two forums and comments there-on.
Darnit, got the hornets out of stasis again.
Regards.
The sound Man
Darnit, got the hornets out of stasis again.
Regards.
The sound Man
Pano, is it really that difficult for you to put the word "amplifier" into those sentences? As I suggested, try it and your questions will be answered. Here, let me walk you through on couple of them. Repeat after me, "If your definition of High Fidelity amplifier includes just the recorded signal, nothing else, then that's all there can be - a technical fact.". One more, "Why does that have to be the definition of High Fidelity amplifier?
Hope you are getting the hang of it now. 
Just so you know, this is "amplifier" section of the forum. But I don't have to tell you that, right?
What's with the strawman argument? 🙄
Which are those? Do those have names?
What distortions are those and at what amount do they become audible? And how did you find out?
Which amplifier sold in consumer market would be considered as "amp B"?
You listen to the point of amp clipping?
I would like to read about the test rig you used for that comparison.
For hi-fi audio, yes. But to figure that out, there would have to be comparisons. Without it, how do we know how close the reproduced sound is to the reference sound?
Measurement would be a visual aid to the design of equipments.
Perfectly measured system deals with distortion only?
Really? I see only groups of people in highly entrenched positions, though I admit that there are some that remain open to arguments, such as yourself.
Sure, I can't argue that. But where is that threshold? Is it the same for everything? And how do I know that the device in question has all those things below the threshold of audibility - wherever that may be? A large suite of measurements might tell me, if I could get them and knew how to read them. Or I might just listen to the thing.
Is it? Has it been for the past 40 odd years? Most of us are old enough to remember the Japanese integrated amps and receivers of the 1970s with the stickers on the front proclaiming 0.0001% distortion - or something amazing like that. Is that as good as amps and preamps ever were? Nothing better has ever been built?
They are named H2, H3, H4, H5, etc. In certain proportions, they are not distinguishable from a pure tone. That's how the ear works.
The same as listed above, plus IMD, maybe crossover distortion. I don't know for sure at what levels each harmonic becomes audible. But there is research into the subject going back to the 1920s, at least. That's how I found out about it.
Since I don't buy commercial amps, I don't have a ready name or brand. But a well designed and built SET can have fairly high distortions, and they won't be audible. Achieving that across a range of levels, frequencies and loads isn't something all amps can do, no matter the topology.
It's happened. 🙂 But I do try to avoid it. Do you think that anyone has ever gotten an idea of tube sound or transistor sound from a clipping amp? An amp doesn't have to clip to have colorations, but it can happen.
My ears, my brain. How else do I know how something sounds? I can estimate sonic characteristics from measurements, but not give a precise description of how something sounds.
But there are probably millions of units of thousands of different amp models that have sufficiently low distortion and noise, and sufficiently high bandwidth, so as to make the audio amplifier a standard commodity part.
If you want to stop "hearing" your amp, take it off the subwoofer!
(Again, amps shouldn't make sound, unless you beat the case or something.)
Probably, if in good shape (no leaky caps, etc.) most of those integrated amps and AVRs sound exactly like most amps built in 2013. There's no logical reason to suspect otherwise. They're not as good, perhaps, for other reasons - reliability, for starters; also would a 1970s integrated have a remote control, or a 12V trigger to turn downstream gear on/off? - but that has nothing to do with "sound."
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It does if you put them on top of your subwoofer. The old amps were solid and heavy - gotta sound different, right? 😛
Did those figures apply across the audio band at all levels and into all reasonable loads? No? Well, there ya go.
I meant avoiding preferences; just chosen blindly as more realistic sounding.
I see differing definitions of "hi-fi" (though I think each has valid contexts) so disagreements are inevitable in that situation.
In agreement with the remainder.
And who could ever forget the Yamaha "Natural" sounding SS amps from the early 1990's?
What would posses a giant electronics company to suddenly declare their SS amps to be "natural" sounding?
Also: You can get a "Natural" sounding Yamaha amp with like .003% distortion on ebay right now for next to nothing.
I have just solved everyone's amplifier needs...forever! And at a reasonable price.
Please know I am not serious...but it is interesting to see the claims of very large electronics manufacturers over time.
What would posses a giant electronics company to suddenly declare their SS amps to be "natural" sounding?
Also: You can get a "Natural" sounding Yamaha amp with like .003% distortion on ebay right now for next to nothing.
I have just solved everyone's amplifier needs...forever! And at a reasonable price.
Please know I am not serious...but it is interesting to see the claims of very large electronics manufacturers over time.
Those distortions simply aren't audible, even up to levels of 1% or more as you claimed?
So you know the levels at what distortions aren't audible but not the level each harmonic becomes audible?
BTW, this is what you wrote.
Is your writing confusing to you by any chance?
There is research into the subject of hi-fi going back to the 1930s, at least. You should find out about it.
Looks like you don't know what test rig is. You could have asked.
test rig: definition of test rig in Oxford dictionary - British & World English (US)
Now that you know, would you mind sharing what test rig was used?
Evenharmonics - why the aggressive stance? I've tried my best to answer your questions, but it never seems to be enough. What's up?
SY, you don't think a marketing department would lie to us or omit important information, do you? After all, this is about amplifiers. No distortions allowed.
Pano has been unfortunate enough, 😛 😀, to hear systems working properly, so he's not satisfied with the normal "bilge" at much as others are, 😉.
So, either he "learns" to tolerate normal 'hifi sound', or he works out how to get the proper stuff happening, every time ... 😀 😀
Sorry ... 😛
So, either he "learns" to tolerate normal 'hifi sound', or he works out how to get the proper stuff happening, every time ... 😀 😀
Sorry ... 😛
No, but such devices make it easier to hear the remainder of the distortion from the earlier chain - which could be uncomfortable for some to hear.
At the recent audio show in Sydney, a Magnepan pair created excellent sound, because it was driven by a very good amp and DAC setup, and normally sourced from music server software - I had no complaints about the SQ at that point. But, when switched to a CD transport the electronics in that unit appeared to generate significant interference - the abhored "digititus" quality was obvious, time to get out of the room ...
And after a short while, they weren't. It's been a solved problem for 40 years.
Remember, you're also talking about the cheap end of the market.
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