So this driver is pretty good, no?
I know that when Genesis designed the II's, they let the L200B woofer run fullrange. The crossover (which I'm rebuilding this weekend) includes a single 0.47mH inductor and 10uF cap, both of which are on the tweeter only. The L200B is the original driver that the new PRO 001 replaces. These drivers are so smooth that they can be run out fullrange and never get harsh.
I'm sure there's some beaming going on, but with the inverted dome tweeter playing easily all the way down to 1.8kHz (probably extended down to around 1.5-1.6kHz due to the 2nd order filter), the beaming is taken care of by the wide dispersion of the tweeter, which I must say is also very smooth and extended.
People who have these old Genesis speakers swear that they compete very well against today's latest and greatest. I tend to agree since they are performing better than my NHT 2.9's. And whoever has heard the 2.9's knows that's not an easy feat.
Yeah, it looks nice. At 1.8 kHz, it's down by about 8 dB, so I'm not sure how loud it sounds in the octave below that. I'd cross it over lower, like about 1kHz or even 800Hz.
Here's the driver I used in my satellite speakers. It's a B&C 8NDL51 in 11.3 liter vented box tuned to 72 Hz. I crossed it over at 1.8kHz. This response includes room gain and a Zobel network. The -3dB point is about 65Hz, so a subwoofer is needed, but that was intended... Max output is about 120dB though I never play it that loud of course.
Basta! doesn't show cone breakup effects, but I doubt any software does that, so these are pistonic motion curves only.
Basta! doesn't show cone breakup effects, but I doubt any software does that, so these are pistonic motion curves only.
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Nah, I'm gonna leave the xo point where it is. I don't want to blow my tweeters.
Are you referring to my speakers or something else. The Genesis II's certainly don't need a midrange driver. They do quite fine on their own. Like I said, they out perform my NHT 2.9's.
Has anyone looked for ScanSpeak 22W8534g00 for 2-way midwoofer? It should be crossed quite low but it would be possible. http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/22w-8534g00.pdf
Another choice could be JA8008 http://jantzen-audio.com/download/ja8008-tw034-kit/PD_JA8008_Aug10_v3.pdf
Another choice could be JA8008 http://jantzen-audio.com/download/ja8008-tw034-kit/PD_JA8008_Aug10_v3.pdf
Some other options...
Jantzen JA8008
Seas P21REX
HiVi F8
HiVi M8A (I did one with that one)
Airborne FR213B8-10M (Ditto)
Usher 8955A (Modeled one, never heard it)
Vifa 22W
Morel MW265
Many 8" designs exist, but they are more complicated to make the power response balanced.
Good luck!
Wolf
Jantzen JA8008
Seas P21REX
HiVi F8
HiVi M8A (I did one with that one)
Airborne FR213B8-10M (Ditto)
Usher 8955A (Modeled one, never heard it)
Vifa 22W
Morel MW265
Many 8" designs exist, but they are more complicated to make the power response balanced.
Good luck!
Wolf
From Madisound web site regarding the A25:
"This classic paper cone has a wonderful roll off at 2000Hz. This is one of the only 10" drivers we know of that could be used in a 2-way by letting the woofer run full range without a crossover. I have heard this woofer with the Seas 27TDFC (H1189) tweeter and it had a magical retro sound to it."
I like that ScanSpeak woofer. I know this thread is about 2-way, but I am currently working on a 3-way using that woofer and these:
http://morelhifi.com/products/pdf/Midrange/Specs sheet MDM55.pdf
http://morelhifi.com/products/pdf/Tweeters/CAT/Specs Sheet CAT408.pdf
Not only are these drivers "made for each other" so to speak, I believe they should make for a very fine system.
Just some random items I thought were interesting as a novice DIYer:
* until the fascination with tiny/invisible speakers came along, probably starting with those cubes from a certain company located in Massachussetts, except for "hi-end" companies, seems like almost every brand had a 2-way with an 8" woofer in their line-up until the late 90s. And I still see this configuration commonly used in speakers intended for recording studios, so the midrange spectrum can't be that bad....can it?
* Dynaudio thinks 2-ways with "large" woofers have their place in the audio world: for example their DM 2/10 equipped with a 10" woofer and their DM 2/8 with an 8" woofer. FYI: the 2/10 has been in their line up since @2007, so someone is buying it, so it must sound decent (I don't think this company would sell anything that was substandard).
* how about a 2 inch "full range" used as an upper midrange/tweeter, like this Vifa?
* until the fascination with tiny/invisible speakers came along, probably starting with those cubes from a certain company located in Massachussetts, except for "hi-end" companies, seems like almost every brand had a 2-way with an 8" woofer in their line-up until the late 90s. And I still see this configuration commonly used in speakers intended for recording studios, so the midrange spectrum can't be that bad....can it?
* Dynaudio thinks 2-ways with "large" woofers have their place in the audio world: for example their DM 2/10 equipped with a 10" woofer and their DM 2/8 with an 8" woofer. FYI: the 2/10 has been in their line up since @2007, so someone is buying it, so it must sound decent (I don't think this company would sell anything that was substandard).
* how about a 2 inch "full range" used as an upper midrange/tweeter, like this Vifa?
I use a Seas P21 REX woofer and a Seas 25 TAF/G as a tweeter (25 TNF also works) with a crossover somewhere around 2,500 Hz. The design isn't mine but cloned from the Rauna concrete speakers. Sounds great to me at least.
I believe that poor power response with 8"+1" is not the only, maybe not the biggest reason why there are so few of them nowadays. It might be because of design factor, slim cabinets and general "taste" for accuracy (in upper mids) at cost of bass productions using 5" midwoofers. + there is great assumption that all of us are going to use dedicated subwoofer for lowest octaves. (which is not true)
I don't believe in too big tweeters because of their poor radiation in highs. Better to add rear tweeter if you want more Sd and lower XO point.
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Why? Because IMO Bose's Acoustimass sat+sub system and popular interest in home theater debuted around the same time i.e. @1990, and for many people the thought of seeing FIVE speakers in their living room plus a subwoofer was enough to make them pay extra for small "invisible" speakers. And let's face it, it's the wives who rule the living room and in my experience most women do not care about high quality sound and think most audio equipment is an eyesore. So IMO small/inconspricuous speakers have won the war by the late 90s. And to make the situation even worse for conventional speakers, now that so many people think the iPod + earbuds is the only way to listen to music, any type of component audio system is looked upon with distaste. 🙁 Though now that Apple Inc. is under different leadership, maybe more people will "wake up" and again realize component systems have their advantages..........
+1
Why? Because IMO Bose's Acoustimass sat+sub system and popular interest in home theater debuted around the same time i.e. @1990, and for many people the thought of seeing FIVE speakers in their living room plus a subwoofer was enough to make them pay extra for small "invisible" speakers. And let's face it, it's the wives who rule the living room and in my experience most women do not care about high quality sound and think most audio equipment is an eyesore. So IMO small/inconspricuous speakers have won the war by the late 90s. And to make the situation even worse for conventional speakers, now that so many people think the iPod + earbuds is the only way to listen to music, any type of component audio system is looked upon with distaste. 🙁 Though now that Apple Inc. is under different leadership, maybe more people will "wake up" and again realize component systems have their advantages..........
+1 again. And to me properly blending a subwoofer with a pair of speakers is tricky even for an experienced hobbyist, so for many people IMO it would be better to stay with a 2.0 system. Plus there is less wiring to deal with, and simplicity is a big selling point these days.
Even when 2-ways with 10" woofers were very common along with tweeters with relatively large radiating surfaces, most companies offered a 3-way version because even back then they knew 10" woofers had problems. I won't deny I like 2-ways with 8" and 10" woofers because of their simplicity and overall good sound not to mention their lower cost (since adding a midrange driver drives up the price significantly, mostly because of the relatively complicated xover). But if I could only own one system and was forced to choose between the 2-way and the 3-way version, I would choose the 3-way, especially with the 10" model.
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Oh yeah, and then there's the built in speakers now. They even have built in subwoofers. 🙄
IMO it has to do less with the aesthetic factor and more with the money factor. I know people throw the bose around as the industry leader but I don't see it that way at all. It's more or less a matter of what's economical. People want surround sound and so they buy the box with the most speakers for the cheapest price. Samsung, LG, Sony, Panasonic rule the roost because what people want is quantity not quality.
That said I don't believe in 8" 2-ways unless there's a waveguide involved.
I think people don't like the idea of sitting down and listening to music. Excersize, lie down, at work secretly, in the car - these are where music is listened to. It's also why pop music is the way it is.
I think more important question is are you willing to lose bass capability of 8 incher and trade it for better integration with tweeter by using 5" or 6" ? If you do not have other choices. What I have heard, bigger cone offers more (at least some cases) than it yields.
I'm stuggling with same 2- or 3-way problem. Should I go for far more complicated and expensive 3-way with 1", 5" + (8", or 2x7"-8") or for very simply 2-way 1"+8" ?
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