Zero One: Very impressive. What is the bar in the front for?
Did you put any adhesive on the inside of the cart?
Mark
Did you put any adhesive on the inside of the cart?
Mark
Gday Hailteflon
I did glue inside the cart, in fact you can think of the whole cart as being homogenous, funnily enough it feels that way when you hold it too, to me this means there are few opportunities for odd resonances etc within the cart and in part this may account for great sonic result.
The bar is what is known as a longhorn mod, though most I have seen are made from alloy and lead, The idea being it stabilizes the cart in the lateral planes, and this seems to work well in conjunction with the isolated mounting of the cart, I have done this with three carts now and in each case got a good improvment in tracking and sound.
This whole project has lead me to re-evaluate what is actually good in cart design, the stylus is so basic, but it doesn't sound that way at all, I am starting to feel that the body and mounting have been rather neglected in may designs, with all the effort going in the stylus cantilever, which is clearly important, but maybe many carts could be made to be way better with more attention in the areas discussed in this thread.
I did glue inside the cart, in fact you can think of the whole cart as being homogenous, funnily enough it feels that way when you hold it too, to me this means there are few opportunities for odd resonances etc within the cart and in part this may account for great sonic result.
The bar is what is known as a longhorn mod, though most I have seen are made from alloy and lead, The idea being it stabilizes the cart in the lateral planes, and this seems to work well in conjunction with the isolated mounting of the cart, I have done this with three carts now and in each case got a good improvment in tracking and sound.
This whole project has lead me to re-evaluate what is actually good in cart design, the stylus is so basic, but it doesn't sound that way at all, I am starting to feel that the body and mounting have been rather neglected in may designs, with all the effort going in the stylus cantilever, which is clearly important, but maybe many carts could be made to be way better with more attention in the areas discussed in this thread.
Z: It will take some time to figure out what the cross-bar does. It increases the moment-of-inertia, so it evidently lowers a resonant frequency. Best guess for now.
Where did you see this mod?
Where did you see this mod?
Hail Hailteflon
The cross bar is know as a longhorn mod and goes way back, I think about 20yrs, you will find many references to it on the Vinyl Circle forum, here is a link to the forum.
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?board=32.0
I feel it works by stopping any rocking motion in the cart under the influence of the normal wiggling movement of the stylus, kind of like a trapeze artist eith a balance pole. However it works the final result is very good on my system, basically the cart just racks far better and as I said it seems to be a perfect match for the isolated method of cart mounting, I'd say it is worth a try, though this version is far more integrated than most I have seen so that might make it work a little better.
I doubt it would be good for cart and arms that are very light and have softish suspension.
The cross bar is know as a longhorn mod and goes way back, I think about 20yrs, you will find many references to it on the Vinyl Circle forum, here is a link to the forum.
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?board=32.0
I feel it works by stopping any rocking motion in the cart under the influence of the normal wiggling movement of the stylus, kind of like a trapeze artist eith a balance pole. However it works the final result is very good on my system, basically the cart just racks far better and as I said it seems to be a perfect match for the isolated method of cart mounting, I'd say it is worth a try, though this version is far more integrated than most I have seen so that might make it work a little better.
I doubt it would be good for cart and arms that are very light and have softish suspension.
Zero One: Thanks for the link, I will view it later tonite.
There was a set of very good pictures of the Shure V15 type I on ebay (Supertrack type I, but not called ST yet), but they are gone now, sale ended. Shure set the typical Shure coil body in a large rectangular metal holder. This was a new cart in box plus new extra stylus. It is unique for the era in that it has a .2 x .9 stylus. Lucky buyer.
I am still going to think about how to get some cement on the magnet/lever joint without disassembly. Great project Z, lots of new questions and directions. Mark
There was a set of very good pictures of the Shure V15 type I on ebay (Supertrack type I, but not called ST yet), but they are gone now, sale ended. Shure set the typical Shure coil body in a large rectangular metal holder. This was a new cart in box plus new extra stylus. It is unique for the era in that it has a .2 x .9 stylus. Lucky buyer.
I am still going to think about how to get some cement on the magnet/lever joint without disassembly. Great project Z, lots of new questions and directions. Mark
Gday, thanks for the pics, that is a very nice looking cart, I once had a M97 which I have heard can sound pretty similar to the V15, the sad thing is I have no idea where it went, the stylus needed replacing as it got broken and I bought a A and R P77 which I don't think sounded as good.
I have seen quite a few V15s on ebay and been quite tempted.
I have seen quite a few V15s on ebay and been quite tempted.
I found some ARCAM cartridge info at www.audiotools.com. A search on the AR P77 through Google found a history site:
The following is from the ARCAM history site:
"The C77 featured a standard spherical stylus on an aluminium cantilever, the P77 a Weinz Paroc (parabolic oval cone) and the P78 added a Boron cantilever. All cartridges became instant hits and the C77 and P77 went on to sell in vast quantities, being joined by a mid range E77 brother and finally gaining a solid Magnesium body in place of the flimsy standard plastic item. "
Again a cartridge with a massive metal body. Sounds like a good idea.
The stylus for the V15 type I (VN2E) is surely a problem at this late date. In the early days of the elliptical stylus (mid 60s) manufacturers used a .2 x .9, .4 x .9, etc. This was probably done so that the new cart would not track the wear pattern of the customers records.
The following is from the ARCAM history site:
"The C77 featured a standard spherical stylus on an aluminium cantilever, the P77 a Weinz Paroc (parabolic oval cone) and the P78 added a Boron cantilever. All cartridges became instant hits and the C77 and P77 went on to sell in vast quantities, being joined by a mid range E77 brother and finally gaining a solid Magnesium body in place of the flimsy standard plastic item. "
Again a cartridge with a massive metal body. Sounds like a good idea.
The stylus for the V15 type I (VN2E) is surely a problem at this late date. In the early days of the elliptical stylus (mid 60s) manufacturers used a .2 x .9, .4 x .9, etc. This was probably done so that the new cart would not track the wear pattern of the customers records.
Attachments
longhorn modification
hailteflon et al:
Hi!
I´m reviving this thread ´cause I have found the PDF of ¨Audio Basics¨newsletters from 1982.
There you´ll learn about the genesis of the idea, which is not very far, conceptually, from your hypothesis about cartridge mass and it´s contribution to axial stability.
If I remember well, the idea was born from a series of experiments with some MC cart that had a low center of gravity. They discovered some virtues in the design of that cart, and tried to replicate them in a MM design.
This is the link:
http://www.avahifi.com/root/audio_basics/ab_pdf/ab1982.pdf
check out http://www.avahifi.com/root/audio_basics/index.htm too, because there is a lot of interesting info from the days of yore
Concerning poetry -analogue poetry-, please check out:
http://www0.epinions.com/content_4276985988
Bizarro!!
Cheers
hailteflon et al:
Hi!
I´m reviving this thread ´cause I have found the PDF of ¨Audio Basics¨newsletters from 1982.
There you´ll learn about the genesis of the idea, which is not very far, conceptually, from your hypothesis about cartridge mass and it´s contribution to axial stability.
If I remember well, the idea was born from a series of experiments with some MC cart that had a low center of gravity. They discovered some virtues in the design of that cart, and tried to replicate them in a MM design.
This is the link:
http://www.avahifi.com/root/audio_basics/ab_pdf/ab1982.pdf
check out http://www.avahifi.com/root/audio_basics/index.htm too, because there is a lot of interesting info from the days of yore
Concerning poetry -analogue poetry-, please check out:
http://www0.epinions.com/content_4276985988
Bizarro!!
Cheers
I insist on posting in this old thread...
This is a good reading concerning analogue:
http://www.hificritic.com/downloads/Archive_A11.pdf
This is a good reading concerning analogue:
http://www.hificritic.com/downloads/Archive_A11.pdf
Ed Saunders HE for V15vxmr in M97xe
Hi made a simple modification to the M97xe. After my little son damaged the third stylus in his live he is very attracted to the equipment and plays with it when I do not see it. So I needed a replacement needle.
By coincidence I did find the Ed Saunders shop on ebay. He had made a replacement stylus for the V15vxmr.
He has a HyperEliptical styli it is not a micro-ridge but comes close in refinement of the diamond shape.
Ed's latest project is this hyper-elliptical stylus for the Shure V15VxMR cartridge. Making one of these things from scratch has a lot of trial and error in the process. Ed will not put a product on the market until it has been thoroughly tested and evaluated by knowledgable persons in the analog audio industry.
Ed really sells the stylus at a lower price as the original replacement for the m97xe.
It is a great chance to up grade the M97xe. I received the package today.
The stylus looks small with the eye. The stylus guard of the Ed Saunders is a laugh it is very flimsy. I took it of.
The new stylus fits a bit tight to glue it to the cart isn't necessary it can not move any more.😱
Now after a quick alignment I have become very experienced at it and doesn't take long before I listen to the first record Charles Aznavour. I immediately recognize a refinement that is very high-ended.
I want to hear more Alanparsons project lp "lime light" the cymbals are so detail and the metalnes is so good reproduced and the sound is so smooth and balanced I am amazed.
I am desperate to know more.
I now play Johan Sebastianbach Concert 4,clavecimbel in a, part3.
After that Georg Philipp Teleman, Suite for flute, And then Antonio Vivaldi concerto in eR.484.
I am not a classical music lover but this are great pieces to my ears.
The parts with clavecimbel is so refined super analogue never hear this refinement from a CD the M97 with HE sounds very clean low distortion Ed let perform a test(see bottom post).
The refinement with the stylus is exceptional and better then the Goldring 1012 with fineline styus with I own. With the Ed Saunders I hear a wider and deeper sound stage as with the original shure stylus.
This combination is great the subbas extension I mis it is tight in that area, I can imagine some will find that great. Now switching from the shure M44-7 to the M97he is the sub-bas poorer.
With the goldring 1012 I experience in some parts a bit thin sound the shure has better refinement without becoming sounding thin it is easy listening for long periods of time.
TEST MEASUREMENTS
Ed Saunders Stylus------------------Shure VN35E Stylus
THD, 1000 Hz, at 5 cm/sec:
-----------0.87% ------------------------0.83%
IMD, 700+3500 Hz, 4:1
-----------1.2% --------------------------1.1%
For people how are this reading at the first time The sound of a cartridge is influenced by the shape of the diamond this shape is a limiting factor in treble detail. The Ed.Saunders HE is capable of reproducing micro-detail if captured on the record.
See photo's diamond shape.
Hi made a simple modification to the M97xe. After my little son damaged the third stylus in his live he is very attracted to the equipment and plays with it when I do not see it. So I needed a replacement needle.
By coincidence I did find the Ed Saunders shop on ebay. He had made a replacement stylus for the V15vxmr.
He has a HyperEliptical styli it is not a micro-ridge but comes close in refinement of the diamond shape.
Ed's latest project is this hyper-elliptical stylus for the Shure V15VxMR cartridge. Making one of these things from scratch has a lot of trial and error in the process. Ed will not put a product on the market until it has been thoroughly tested and evaluated by knowledgable persons in the analog audio industry.
Ed really sells the stylus at a lower price as the original replacement for the m97xe.
It is a great chance to up grade the M97xe. I received the package today.
The stylus looks small with the eye. The stylus guard of the Ed Saunders is a laugh it is very flimsy. I took it of.
The new stylus fits a bit tight to glue it to the cart isn't necessary it can not move any more.😱
Now after a quick alignment I have become very experienced at it and doesn't take long before I listen to the first record Charles Aznavour. I immediately recognize a refinement that is very high-ended.
I want to hear more Alanparsons project lp "lime light" the cymbals are so detail and the metalnes is so good reproduced and the sound is so smooth and balanced I am amazed.
I am desperate to know more.
I now play Johan Sebastianbach Concert 4,clavecimbel in a, part3.
After that Georg Philipp Teleman, Suite for flute, And then Antonio Vivaldi concerto in eR.484.
I am not a classical music lover but this are great pieces to my ears.
The parts with clavecimbel is so refined super analogue never hear this refinement from a CD the M97 with HE sounds very clean low distortion Ed let perform a test(see bottom post).
The refinement with the stylus is exceptional and better then the Goldring 1012 with fineline styus with I own. With the Ed Saunders I hear a wider and deeper sound stage as with the original shure stylus.
This combination is great the subbas extension I mis it is tight in that area, I can imagine some will find that great. Now switching from the shure M44-7 to the M97he is the sub-bas poorer.
With the goldring 1012 I experience in some parts a bit thin sound the shure has better refinement without becoming sounding thin it is easy listening for long periods of time.
TEST MEASUREMENTS
Ed Saunders Stylus------------------Shure VN35E Stylus
THD, 1000 Hz, at 5 cm/sec:
-----------0.87% ------------------------0.83%
IMD, 700+3500 Hz, 4:1
-----------1.2% --------------------------1.1%
For people how are this reading at the first time The sound of a cartridge is influenced by the shape of the diamond this shape is a limiting factor in treble detail. The Ed.Saunders HE is capable of reproducing micro-detail if captured on the record.
See photo's diamond shape.
Attachments
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Hi,I don't want to spoil the fun but I see no reason why the specific aftermarket stylus you refer to,has any reason to sound so much better than the genuine shure stylus.I have tried this brand's stylus for my V15 III and the result was very disapointing.The genuine VN35E is superior in every respect.....tracking,refinement,resolution,depth...........
If I were in your place I would try the Jico SAS alternative if for some reason the genuine one was not prefered.SAS is the only alternative that could be better, "better" if you like,than the original shure,at a quite reasonable price.See my avatar,that is a SAS tip,a kind of micro-ridge line contact type.
I do not think the SAS will be better then this one because it is very good. I have a goldring with line contact I think the Shure sounds better with the Ed Saunders.
I had the VTA not in position after checking The needle was vertical with tone arm in a to high position. So the needle is not in the right position with accurate VTA.
So this is a comment to the Ed Saunders stylus that I have may be you shout try again and look a bit closer and you will get also nice results. The soundstage is wide and deep.
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Now the new stylus played a while it makes a horrible "SSS" at some s parts it sounds like a kind of breakup, when the amplitude of the s is loud enough it distorts.
So it bin a deception after more then 6 hours of use the diamond shape is OK the for super detail it must be some other part in the assembly.
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