For PA, drivers that cover the midrange can move no more than about 5mm before excessive modulation distortion sets in.
I'm not sure what the limits are in the LF, its a square funtion of the bandwith in octaves though.
I'm not sure what the limits are in the LF, its a square funtion of the bandwith in octaves though.
It just an analogy Art--besides, a speaker is not a motor
It is an electric air pump that uses an alternating current brushless motor. 😛
I use the engine as an analogy since it can be applied to speakers (to a point) Hey, I'll be the first to admit it ain't perfect but it does clear the air a bit.
The moral of my story was motors and engines do have things in common--the main thing being balance of proportions and multiples if needed.
A tip though, you can get more Xmax and not lose efficiency if the diameter of the sub goes up. The B & C 21" sub has a 15mm Xmax, 6" voice coil, dual suspension coils and still puts out 96dB of efficiency, goes down to 30Hz and handles 2000 watts. 60ndown can just throw it in a ported box and be done with it. He said he wanted a BIG sub...
It is an electric air pump that uses an alternating current brushless motor. 😛
I use the engine as an analogy since it can be applied to speakers (to a point) Hey, I'll be the first to admit it ain't perfect but it does clear the air a bit.
The moral of my story was motors and engines do have things in common--the main thing being balance of proportions and multiples if needed.
A tip though, you can get more Xmax and not lose efficiency if the diameter of the sub goes up. The B & C 21" sub has a 15mm Xmax, 6" voice coil, dual suspension coils and still puts out 96dB of efficiency, goes down to 30Hz and handles 2000 watts. 60ndown can just throw it in a ported box and be done with it. He said he wanted a BIG sub...
can we do a quick comparison of the top 5 big subs here please?
seems to me there are about 5 top contenders as a 1 box/big sub being discussed here recently.
1.the original labhorn
2.keystone?
3. waynes dual lab 12
4. this
Yamaha SW218V Club Series V Subwoofer and more Subwoofers at GuitarCenter.com.
5.did i miss one?
id love to see peoples understanding of which sub does what differently to the others
heres mine so far
1 solid performer, some distortion above 60hz.
2.gets 10% louder and lower then 1. wider frequency response, less distortion
3.gets loudest of all 5, least distortion.
4.great sub, very affordable.
5.no idea?
am i close?
seems to me there are about 5 top contenders as a 1 box/big sub being discussed here recently.
1.the original labhorn
2.keystone?
3. waynes dual lab 12
4. this
Yamaha SW218V Club Series V Subwoofer and more Subwoofers at GuitarCenter.com.
5.did i miss one?
id love to see peoples understanding of which sub does what differently to the others
heres mine so far
1 solid performer, some distortion above 60hz.
2.gets 10% louder and lower then 1. wider frequency response, less distortion
3.gets loudest of all 5, least distortion.
4.great sub, very affordable.
5.no idea?
am i close?
1) Don’t understand “some distortion above 60hz”, distortion increases at lower frequencies.
2) SPL is measured in dB, distortion in percent.
5) There are dozens of designs that fit particular applications.
The Yamaha Club series are an inexpensive speaker using fairly low excursion Eminence speakers that give good bang for the buck, but not much LF output per occupied space.
The 45 inch depth of the 12Pi, LABhorn, and similar depth automatically disqualify them for my use, there are too many venues I work in they simply won’t fit in.
I had similar sized cabinets in the 1980’s, I ended up cutting them down to 30 inch depth.
The small compression chamber of a horn certainly would appear to benefit from the cooling plug, as implemented in the 12pi, while bass reflex cabinets get more air exchange since the highest excursion occurs above Fb (and below, where they should be high passed), where the meat of most sub work is done.
Tapped horns have several frequencies of high excursion through the passband, which keeps the heat blowing, and since the driver’s vents often are close to the mouth exit, heat does not build up in the enclosure.
A tapped horn offers about 6 dB more output per watt than a bass reflex cabinet, but requires more cabinet volume to do that.
Even a large horn like the LAB horn or 12Pi don’t have flat response until multiples are used, while BR and TH frequency response changes little from one cabinet to many.
Tapped horn designs are available in a large range of size and frequency response.
At half the size, less than half the weight, and similar output (but more distortion) than the 12Pi, my BC18SW125-4 appears to rate fairly high on your list.
Art Welter
2) SPL is measured in dB, distortion in percent.
5) There are dozens of designs that fit particular applications.
The Yamaha Club series are an inexpensive speaker using fairly low excursion Eminence speakers that give good bang for the buck, but not much LF output per occupied space.
The 45 inch depth of the 12Pi, LABhorn, and similar depth automatically disqualify them for my use, there are too many venues I work in they simply won’t fit in.
I had similar sized cabinets in the 1980’s, I ended up cutting them down to 30 inch depth.
The small compression chamber of a horn certainly would appear to benefit from the cooling plug, as implemented in the 12pi, while bass reflex cabinets get more air exchange since the highest excursion occurs above Fb (and below, where they should be high passed), where the meat of most sub work is done.
Tapped horns have several frequencies of high excursion through the passband, which keeps the heat blowing, and since the driver’s vents often are close to the mouth exit, heat does not build up in the enclosure.
A tapped horn offers about 6 dB more output per watt than a bass reflex cabinet, but requires more cabinet volume to do that.
Even a large horn like the LAB horn or 12Pi don’t have flat response until multiples are used, while BR and TH frequency response changes little from one cabinet to many.
Tapped horn designs are available in a large range of size and frequency response.
At half the size, less than half the weight, and similar output (but more distortion) than the 12Pi, my BC18SW125-4 appears to rate fairly high on your list.
Art Welter
Good choice for fairly small, light, and sensitive, but not for low, loud and clean.
A B&C 21" sub for $100???
I'm sure you can do it but the $500 shipping charge might hurt a bit.
I'm sure you can do it but the $500 shipping charge might hurt a bit.
Consider the wavelength of 3kHz for a moment (or better yet, 3.4kHz).
For 3.4kHz, the wavelength is 0.1m. 5mm is a relatively small in comparison. Even 10mm p/p, is a tenth of the wavelength: is a 36 degree phase change (from peak to peak of travel) that excessive?
I'd guess it's suspension non-linearities.
A question to the rest of you.
1000w is a lot of power, when you consider that >90% of that will come out as heat. While the driver may well withstand that (though not without some heating of the voice coil), how do the T/S parameters change, and how can we hope to account for this in the cabinet design?
"I'd guess it's suspension non-linearities."
It sounds like someone gargling while trying to sing, or like trying to talk through a fan.
The frequency shift makes it sound like classic Doppler to me.
It sounds like someone gargling while trying to sing, or like trying to talk through a fan.
The frequency shift makes it sound like classic Doppler to me.
kinda quiet in here, anyone else want to share their understanding of the differences between these boxes?
subwoofer amp connection question
i have a subwoofer plate amp that accepts what looks like just 1 single rca in,
anyone got an idea what i connect the other end to? d i use a Y lead at the amp? or dismantle some wires internally and make connections another way?
silly novice question im sure, but ive never owned a single rca input anything before 😛
i have a subwoofer plate amp that accepts what looks like just 1 single rca in,
anyone got an idea what i connect the other end to? d i use a Y lead at the amp? or dismantle some wires internally and make connections another way?
silly novice question im sure, but ive never owned a single rca input anything before 😛
Ooh, a top 5 non exhaustive list is sure to be a pleasant thread with no denigration or trolling whatsoever.
/popcorn
My contenders for the number 1 spot are:
http://milano.repubblica.it/multimedia/home/7328307
and
http://www.rotarywoofer.com/
/popcorn
My contenders for the number 1 spot are:
http://milano.repubblica.it/multimedia/home/7328307
and
http://www.rotarywoofer.com/
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If it's a single RCA input with no right or left label, chances are it's meant to be connected to the LFE output on a home theater receiver.
He specified a 1 box/big sub. So i would say this must be the one:
Danley brings the Matterhorn to NSCA
Danley brings the Matterhorn to NSCA
Doppler Distortion in loudspeakers
I can't see how 10mm p/p of cone travel could have such an impact, but I'm happy enough to take your word on this matter: teenagers rarely have the money to try things for themselves.
Anyone with any thoughts re power input vs T/S parameter changes?
I can't see how 10mm p/p of cone travel could have such an impact, but I'm happy enough to take your word on this matter: teenagers rarely have the money to try things for themselves.
Anyone with any thoughts re power input vs T/S parameter changes?
Design the nominal tuning for a higher Qts (or lower BL) than the nominal small signal value. It will be a little overdamped when cold, and a little (or perhaps a lot) underdamped when blazing hot. Somewhere in the middle, with the expected amount of heat rise, it will be tuned "correctly".
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