I think this is also the reason for all the buzz about tweaks and wires. You can put your speakers on damping cones or change wires around (or even twist up your own) without blowing anything up, and nearly anyone can do it without needing to know anything technical at all. You can even change a resistor or capacitor with another of the same value pretty safely and without having to break out the pocket calculator, or without needing to know what the circuit actually does. So this is what gets done by audiophiles wanting to get their hands dirty, play with something minor (or even irrelevant in some cases), and then listen deeply for expected differences and declare a breakthrough.
I agree - Lidia sounds like a perceptive woman. A similar thought has occured to me based on this phrase "if the only tool you know how to use is a hammer, you treat every problem as a nail!" Sometimes the only tool people have learnt to exercise is their wallet!
I always feel really sorry for people who get all tied up in the minutia of audio and miss the big picture. They spend so much time fetting over the insignificant when they could actually be listening to music. But then I have always been quite surprised at the number of audiophiles that I know who aren't actually that interested in music. Its the equipment that is the hobby. Seems a little like having wine making as a hobby and not actually liking wine.
It reminds me of seeing a guy in China who sat at his computer watching a screen ful of stock quote numbers changing constantly as the prices updated in real time. I asked why he was doing that and he said that he was looking for "trends and patterns". Well if you know anything about stock prices you will know how misguided that is.
It reminds me of seeing a guy in China who sat at his computer watching a screen ful of stock quote numbers changing constantly as the prices updated in real time. I asked why he was doing that and he said that he was looking for "trends and patterns". Well if you know anything about stock prices you will know how misguided that is.
The more obsessive, yes. I'd say that most of the people buying these just don't know any better. They walk into a hi-fi shop to listen to speakers. They don't do their research. They've likely never even thought of "accurate sound reproduction" as a goal of their system... they just want what sounded pleasant in the shop...
Then when they bring the speaker home, it sounds different from how it did in the shop, because of course the off axis response is a nightmare and the room sound is giving its own presenation of timbre.
and what really convinces them is the nightmare electrical load speakers passive speakers. The 83db/w/m, 3.5 ohm, 70 degree phase angle speakers. They manage to sound so lacking with modest electronics that it establishes the concept that "Amps sound very different". That right there is a gateway into the abyss.
Not to mention the fact that they're chasing the sound of poor masters of 1960s vinyl. 😀 🙄
Also not realizing that this "emotion" was more likely generated by circumstances other than sound quality and you can be sure that the saleman was not going to ellucidate the situation, even if they knew. The amount of emotion that gets coupled into the purchase of loudspeakers amazes me. Marketing does that. They try and tie emotion into everything. Listen to car commercials sometime, its all about how the car makes you feel. Manipulate ones emotions and you can sell them anything.
Its funny to go to China and see the early and nieve ways that they try this. They flatter you and pamper you and everything else to get you to buy their stuff. The lack of subtlety is comic sometimes.
I understand this and agree 100% but....but sometimes it is the journey and not the destination. Whats wrong with the audio equivalent of stopping and smelling the roses or just taking a walk with no destination? If it is playing with the "minutia" that brings us some sense of relaxation, accomplishment or some sense of joy is that so terrible?
I think that the reason there are so many of us "audiophiles" and "audio nerds" is because we like to feel involved with the music we enjoy in some small way. Wither it is trying imagine we are listening to our great band live or try to experience what it was like sitting next to them playing in the studio.
So why feel sorry for them?
Now that my hippy dippy audiophile side of me has vented it's time for another beer.
Thats fine, its just not what I am into. I do audio for a living, I have no interest in tinkering, I listen for pleasure only and I have no interest in listening to something that is not as good as I can reasonably afford. (I'm pretty cheap as well.)
If tinkering is what you like to do then fine. Just realize that you are never likely to actually have a really great system that way. Not unless somehow, out of shear luck you manage to tinker your way into it. I mean I have done this for almost 50 years and I do it full time. Do you think that you will tinker into a solution that can compete with mine? I "tinker" with General Relativity, but I have no delusions about accidentally finding a Unified Field Theory. I still enjoy reading about it.
So tinker away.
My suggest is to get a really great system just to listen to (and leave it alone) and then tinker with another one. That way you get the best of both worlds. Thats actually what I have done most of my life.
^^^ Very correct and expected, tell them to try a real transducer next time if they wanted to hear the differences ..🙄
Thanks, not surprising but worth reading none the less.
We need more data like this, but alas those who don't believe don't need any more proof and those who do believe won't believe it anyways.
Only once did I see an audiophile change his opinon that he could hear differences after his blind test showed nothing. He admitted that he was wrong but then stopped audio as his hobby. It wasn't any fun anymore with the mystic.
We need more data like this, but alas those who don't believe don't need any more proof and those who do believe won't believe it anyways.
Only once did I see an audiophile change his opinon that he could hear differences after his blind test showed nothing. He admitted that he was wrong but then stopped audio as his hobby. It wasn't any fun anymore with the mystic.
Look it is impossible to change and not have a change , the test was about "which do you prefer" so the majority preferred the cheaper rig, did that make it better , does that mean there is no difference .. LOL
Now what if the majority said the sound of their reference speaker used in the test sounds better than Geddies speakers, would you still feel the same way about the test....🙄
The test is not valid IMO apart from their personal preferences of that group and not knowing how experienced or inexperienced they are at evaluating Hi-fi gear .....
well ......... 😱
PS: They were using a poor transducer IMO, nothing worthy for such an evaluation......
Now what if the majority said the sound of their reference speaker used in the test sounds better than Geddies speakers, would you still feel the same way about the test....🙄
The test is not valid IMO apart from their personal preferences of that group and not knowing how experienced or inexperienced they are at evaluating Hi-fi gear .....
well ......... 😱
PS: They were using a poor transducer IMO, nothing worthy for such an evaluation......
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Why?
So what you're saying is that if someone, say, unplugs a power cord from the wall and attaches it to another circuit, it is impossible for the "change" to result in no [sonic] change?
Or if someone unplugs an RCA or XLR cable from one input on a preamp and places it in another?
What is this, some kinda earl club? Michigan and Canada....
hm...
EarlK=Earl Geddes!
Happy bday doc.
hm...
EarlK=Earl Geddes!
Happy bday doc.
Actually the test will tend to promote the selection of a difference, even if there is none. That is, the testers were told that one system was A and one was B and they were allowed to select between them. But they knew which one of the two they were listening to, within a test session, though they did not know which system (expensive or cheap) was assigned A or B. In a more rigorous test, the listener would ask for a switch, but the switch would be random, so they would not know if they were listening to A or B. Or you could have A, B, and C, where two of the three are the same system, and the listener picks the different one.
The results are completely consistent with a random guess. I would bet that the outcome would be the same, if A and B had been the same system.
The speakers chosen for the test are pretty decent speakers from a well respected company that supplies monitors for professional studios. They are certainly not bad, used within their limitations.
Sheldon
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