Hello,
For a long time I wanted to build al large 3way loudspeaker. bud I dont nog what drivers i want to use. here is what i want:
a big floorstanding speaker that have a lot of deep bud thigt en colorfull bas. a high and mid thats good detailed. a floorstander that even when you have the volume low it sounds great and the bass is there.
the design.
cabinet of 1meter or so high. 2x 10" sub drivers. 1 driver and 1 passive radiator. a 6-7" mid woofer. and a nice tweeter ( I was thinking of the seas DXT)
does someone have some suggestions ? or idea's
For a long time I wanted to build al large 3way loudspeaker. bud I dont nog what drivers i want to use. here is what i want:
a big floorstanding speaker that have a lot of deep bud thigt en colorfull bas. a high and mid thats good detailed. a floorstander that even when you have the volume low it sounds great and the bass is there.
the design.
cabinet of 1meter or so high. 2x 10" sub drivers. 1 driver and 1 passive radiator. a 6-7" mid woofer. and a nice tweeter ( I was thinking of the seas DXT)
does someone have some suggestions ? or idea's
I forgot to say that my budget is around 600-700 euro's
the woofers i like:
Peerles xls10 with pr. i wanted the 265gr version bud i can only get the 400gr version new.
seas L26RFX/P
visaton TIW250XS
or maybe another one. bud witch one is the best for this design ?
the woofers i like:
Peerles xls10 with pr. i wanted the 265gr version bud i can only get the 400gr version new.
seas L26RFX/P
visaton TIW250XS
or maybe another one. bud witch one is the best for this design ?
Thats a nice design but i like the looks of a floorstander with 2x10 inch on the bottom and there above the mid en high
Has been a long, long time since I heard passive radiators but to my ears the best bass at low volumes comes from transmission lines.
Bass SQ improves quite a bit when operated active.
Bass SQ improves quite a bit when operated active.
What about the DTQWT from Troels?
DTQWT TWEAKS
Troels also compared 3 10" bass drivers here
10C77
If you like the look of 2 x 10" woofers you need to double the cabinet volume so you are looking at 100 liters or thereabouts.
If you are looking at something more compact Tony Gee has a 10" in a smaller box.
Humble Homemade Hifi
2 AE TD10S, AE TD6M, Fountek Neopro5i or Beyma TPL150.
Better still, don't limit yourself to 10's, use a JBL/AE or other great 15, add a B&C 6MD38 to the tweets already mentioned.
Brett is there a box and crossover design of this driver combination available?
I suspect gforse has not built many speakers before.
Gforse,
I second Charles's ascertation that unless you are willing to sacrifice some transient response sealed or TL bass is your best bet. Sealed boxes are also easier to work with as they are more tolerant of slight change in box dimensions. TL boxes are big (like Troel's DTQWT) and need good carpentry skills.
Hi Gforse,
you have to look for a design with dayton (DC250) paper-cone woofers dayton 4" aluminium-cone mid and 1"dayton neodymium tweeter.(look at parts expres)
Paper-cone woofers sound very good with a bit higher Q to have a good push. I have made a lot of speakers. A very good low distortion 3way with carbon woofer but it wasn't the nice sound I hear of my paper cone I now use. They are cheap and nothing sounds better.
you have to look for a design with dayton (DC250) paper-cone woofers dayton 4" aluminium-cone mid and 1"dayton neodymium tweeter.(look at parts expres)
Paper-cone woofers sound very good with a bit higher Q to have a good push. I have made a lot of speakers. A very good low distortion 3way with carbon woofer but it wasn't the nice sound I hear of my paper cone I now use. They are cheap and nothing sounds better.
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I second the use of paper-coned woofers.
How about a couple of Volt B2500.1 woofers?
I am also fond of Vifa silk domes but not sure about mids.
How about a couple of Volt B2500.1 woofers?
I am also fond of Vifa silk domes but not sure about mids.
If you mean passive, then no. I haven't bothered with passive designs for a decade.
As a newb, listing a set of drivers and expecting an xover to be available is the height of foolishness.
im absolutely agree with brett.
not to mention there is several good active solution out there.
dcx2496, minidsp to name a few.
cheers
henry
not to mention there is several good active solution out there.
dcx2496, minidsp to name a few.
cheers
henry
The advantages of active are many, not least that it will be cheaper including the extra amp(s) than a passive xover filled with boutiquey capacitors and beefy inductors.
But mostly active xovers sound better and are a lot easier to implement, particularly digital ones.
The drawback are… well the extra amp(s) but you can get away with smaller ones as you do not have to make up for the insertion loss a passive one produces. In my experience that is a minimum of -3dB for a very simple one but Billy Woodman of ATC claims that more complex passive xovers can have up to -9dB insertion losses.
I never had speakers with complex passive xovers so I can't say for sure.
You could make a virtue of it and taylor the amps according to their task like beefy SS for bass and some nice, little valve amp for treble. Or whatever rocks YOUR boat!
But mostly active xovers sound better and are a lot easier to implement, particularly digital ones.
The drawback are… well the extra amp(s) but you can get away with smaller ones as you do not have to make up for the insertion loss a passive one produces. In my experience that is a minimum of -3dB for a very simple one but Billy Woodman of ATC claims that more complex passive xovers can have up to -9dB insertion losses.
I never had speakers with complex passive xovers so I can't say for sure.
You could make a virtue of it and taylor the amps according to their task like beefy SS for bass and some nice, little valve amp for treble. Or whatever rocks YOUR boat!
ATC is one of the best speakers i ever heard.
but its abit funny, i got fullrange with all the details, but the bass and dynamics cannot compete with ATC and Phil jones's Platinum Audio Solo (phil's new company is AAD)
cheers
henry
but its abit funny, i got fullrange with all the details, but the bass and dynamics cannot compete with ATC and Phil jones's Platinum Audio Solo (phil's new company is AAD)
cheers
henry
Atc review Volt B250.8
I would do something like this http://www.daytonaudio.com/lspeakers/images/lspeakers-dc250-8_295-315.pdf
Even beter these.
http://www.daytonaudio.com/lspeakers/images/lspeakers-dc300-8_295-320.pdf
These will make nice response at has all what you need surface and Q to give bass that rocks the house.
Or 1 10" with double xmax like this one very nice Q for BR.
http://www.daytonaudio.com/lspeakers/images/lspeakers-dcs255-4_295-202.pdf
O I forgot about the nice peerless 10" papercones.
http://www.tymphany.com/files/NE265W-04%20Rev3_0.pdf
http://www.tymphany.com/files/SLS-P830668%20Rev1_0.pdf
I would do something like this http://www.daytonaudio.com/lspeakers/images/lspeakers-dc250-8_295-315.pdf
Even beter these.
http://www.daytonaudio.com/lspeakers/images/lspeakers-dc300-8_295-320.pdf
These will make nice response at has all what you need surface and Q to give bass that rocks the house.
Or 1 10" with double xmax like this one very nice Q for BR.
http://www.daytonaudio.com/lspeakers/images/lspeakers-dcs255-4_295-202.pdf
O I forgot about the nice peerless 10" papercones.
http://www.tymphany.com/files/NE265W-04%20Rev3_0.pdf
http://www.tymphany.com/files/SLS-P830668%20Rev1_0.pdf
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Thanks for the responses. A lot of good advice.
For the record, wat i'm looking for.
A 3way loudspeaker. with a budget around €700,- that about 800 dollars or 640 pound.
the one of thoels are impressive bud a litle bit out of my budget 🙁
my first idea was 2 XLS10 ( one XLS with one PR) but I wanted the 265gr version. cause this one preforms better with music. according the many tests on the internet.
and for the mid/high te dd8 from tony Humble Homemade Hifi
but i have no XLS. so i wanted to see whats more on the internet. youre thinking all in the right directions. however i prefer 2x10" for the looks and i have no large living room. so i think when i put a 12 or 15" times two, that my neighbours arn't happy with me 🙄
I dont whant a front for the drivers. so the drivers have to look good. I prefer black once.
now my skils. i have build in the past serveral PA speakers, ( big subwoofers and line array's and some mid/high speakers) now i want a true hifi loudspeaker.
i have build some small filters. bud it is difficult. so i whas thinking of a existing 2way speaker, and look for some extra woofers. and put them in one housing. and mayby drive de subwoofers active. ( but this expensiver but a lot easier to use.)
there are a few woofers i like:
Dayton RSS265HF-4 RSS265HF-4 - Dayton High Fidelity Subwoofer 10 inch - Europe Audio
Seas L26RFX/P H1209-08 - Seas L26RFX/P 10 inch woofer - Europe Audio
peerless XLS10 830452 - Peerless XLS-269 10 inch long stroke woofer with die-cast basket - Europe Audio
but i'm open for suggestions
so i have a lott of quastion... 😕😕😕
Sorry for my english 😉
For the record, wat i'm looking for.
A 3way loudspeaker. with a budget around €700,- that about 800 dollars or 640 pound.
the one of thoels are impressive bud a litle bit out of my budget 🙁
my first idea was 2 XLS10 ( one XLS with one PR) but I wanted the 265gr version. cause this one preforms better with music. according the many tests on the internet.
and for the mid/high te dd8 from tony Humble Homemade Hifi
but i have no XLS. so i wanted to see whats more on the internet. youre thinking all in the right directions. however i prefer 2x10" for the looks and i have no large living room. so i think when i put a 12 or 15" times two, that my neighbours arn't happy with me 🙄
I dont whant a front for the drivers. so the drivers have to look good. I prefer black once.
now my skils. i have build in the past serveral PA speakers, ( big subwoofers and line array's and some mid/high speakers) now i want a true hifi loudspeaker.
i have build some small filters. bud it is difficult. so i whas thinking of a existing 2way speaker, and look for some extra woofers. and put them in one housing. and mayby drive de subwoofers active. ( but this expensiver but a lot easier to use.)
there are a few woofers i like:
Dayton RSS265HF-4 RSS265HF-4 - Dayton High Fidelity Subwoofer 10 inch - Europe Audio
Seas L26RFX/P H1209-08 - Seas L26RFX/P 10 inch woofer - Europe Audio
peerless XLS10 830452 - Peerless XLS-269 10 inch long stroke woofer with die-cast basket - Europe Audio
but i'm open for suggestions
so i have a lott of quastion... 😕😕😕
Sorry for my english 😉
I agree. 3db is common for insertion loss. I read a paper by B&W some 2 decades ago (pre-internet) and they also had an insertion loss of 7-8db so Woodman's claim might be right.
Yup, I once had got to use a 3" dome made by ATC. It was built like a tank. The magnet was bigger than some woofers I know. Does ATC still less drivers to DIYers?
1. Are you looking at a subwoofer+satellite system or a full range 3 way system. You cant add a woofer to a 2 way monitor like the DD8 and expect good results. ALL 3 drivers need to integrate well.
2. All 3 drivers you have listed are good but remember the Dayton is only a 4 ohm driver so if you are connecting 2 of them in parallel you might have some issues with sensitivity. Also do look at the SEAS CA26RE4X woofer. It will fit your budget. I assume the budget is $800 per pair.
THE ART OF SOUND PERFECTION BY SEAS - H1316-08 CA26RE4X
3. Are you looking for a passive system or active system. Active makes it easier as you dont have to match sensitivities too much. Also you can use a SS amp for the bass, a PP-UL tube amp (like a 6550 or KT88) for the midbass, and a SE tube (like the 300B) for the top end.
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1. I'm looking for al full 3way system. that will be used for music and now and then movie's. I nog that its difficult to put existing systems together. but i thought it would be better cause the most systems are wel tested.
2. thats a nice dirver from seas for a good price. the one i like is the
CA26RFX with a PR H9946 - Seas SP26R passive radiator - Europe Audio is this also the pr that is the same line as a CA26RFX
the budget is 800doller per pair.
3. i most want a passive systems that can be used with one amplifer. but active is an options, but rather not.
2. thats a nice dirver from seas for a good price. the one i like is the
CA26RFX with a PR H9946 - Seas SP26R passive radiator - Europe Audio is this also the pr that is the same line as a CA26RFX
the budget is 800doller per pair.
3. i most want a passive systems that can be used with one amplifer. but active is an options, but rather not.
Wow guys, wouldn't using an active system require either extensive research into commercially available systems or the more difficult choice, built-from-scratch circuitry? Then gforse would have to come up with three separate amps for each speaker.
I know there are advantages to active systems, but going by what gforse has written, I am not sure he was looking to invest in such a complicated system.
And this may cause many members to put me on their ignore list 😉 but as far as sufficient bass output at low volume levels, sounds like a good time to:
* use an EQ with an in/out switch so the user can take it out of the signal loop at higher levels
or
* use an integrated amp or preamp equipped with - get ready 😀 - a loudness switch. Yes, the system that so many audiophiles love to hate, but in non-laboratory listening situations it can be very useful because it helps compensate for the human hearing system's insensitivity to low bass and the upper treble frequency spectrum (this used to be commonly referred to as the Fletcher-Munson curves, but "equal loudness contour" is the more modern term).
As far as a 10" active woofer + 10" PR, sounds good to me though whenever I see a PR-equipped speaker, the PR is almost always larger than the active woofer. Unfortunately I don't know enough about this type of bass-reflex system to offer a reason for this.
For the younguns' here 🙂 the following are two vintage examples of same-size woofer/PR systems, both three ways....because I have never seen any new examples:
JBL L150 - I miss those woofers with their clean white color......
Realistic T-300, page 22 - Radio Shack did sell some half-way decent gear back in the day. This large floorstander only reaches to 44Hz, so it looks like the engineers decided to sacrifice deeeeeep bass capability for higher effciency. And most rock & pop music hits bottom at around 40Hz anyway, so this works out well for many music fans.
****************************************
Bonus rambling.......🙂
While ultra hi-end gear almost never included loudness compensation systems, pretty much all other classes of gear did for decades. Then the 90s rolled around and they began disappearing, I guess possibly because the manufacturers thought their customers would never listen to their system at anything but shout-inducing levels?
I have noticed them making a slow comeback on mid-fi gear sold by companies like Pioneer and Yamaha. :thumbsup: But because of all those A/V receivers out there without them, I strongly believe this is why so many HT systems are perceived to sound "thin" and lifeless at anything but thundering levels, and why so many people admit to "goosing" their subwoofer's volume level so they can hear it properly at levels lower than reference.
I know there are advantages to active systems, but going by what gforse has written, I am not sure he was looking to invest in such a complicated system.
And this may cause many members to put me on their ignore list 😉 but as far as sufficient bass output at low volume levels, sounds like a good time to:
* use an EQ with an in/out switch so the user can take it out of the signal loop at higher levels
or
* use an integrated amp or preamp equipped with - get ready 😀 - a loudness switch. Yes, the system that so many audiophiles love to hate, but in non-laboratory listening situations it can be very useful because it helps compensate for the human hearing system's insensitivity to low bass and the upper treble frequency spectrum (this used to be commonly referred to as the Fletcher-Munson curves, but "equal loudness contour" is the more modern term).
As far as a 10" active woofer + 10" PR, sounds good to me though whenever I see a PR-equipped speaker, the PR is almost always larger than the active woofer. Unfortunately I don't know enough about this type of bass-reflex system to offer a reason for this.
For the younguns' here 🙂 the following are two vintage examples of same-size woofer/PR systems, both three ways....because I have never seen any new examples:
JBL L150 - I miss those woofers with their clean white color......
Realistic T-300, page 22 - Radio Shack did sell some half-way decent gear back in the day. This large floorstander only reaches to 44Hz, so it looks like the engineers decided to sacrifice deeeeeep bass capability for higher effciency. And most rock & pop music hits bottom at around 40Hz anyway, so this works out well for many music fans.
****************************************
Bonus rambling.......🙂
While ultra hi-end gear almost never included loudness compensation systems, pretty much all other classes of gear did for decades. Then the 90s rolled around and they began disappearing, I guess possibly because the manufacturers thought their customers would never listen to their system at anything but shout-inducing levels?
I have noticed them making a slow comeback on mid-fi gear sold by companies like Pioneer and Yamaha. :thumbsup: But because of all those A/V receivers out there without them, I strongly believe this is why so many HT systems are perceived to sound "thin" and lifeless at anything but thundering levels, and why so many people admit to "goosing" their subwoofer's volume level so they can hear it properly at levels lower than reference.
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