And this coming from a guy who designed an amp that was "stereophile class A" a couple of years ago! I hope your getting better.
I like this thread too...
I agree with you guys that the speakers and room acoustics are the major roles in the system. And I myself spend most of the time and effort in speakers, too. (also, stay in speaker forums here most of the time😀 )
Unfortunately room acoustics is my sore spot🙁 My system is a living room setup. I can't afford a house with my own audio space. WAF aside, I myself also like a clean and simple looking style for living space, so room treatment is kept to a minimum, near inexistent.
The very live space is compensated by the narrow dispersions of my speakers. I'm not striving for the ultimate precise playback, so I'm OK with such situation. My biggest problem is ambient traffic noises. I live in a city. Crowded, noisy as you might imagine. 🙁
Recently I got a feeling that I can't do much on speakers and room. If I want to do something significant, I probably have to move the house first. That's far beyond what a 'hobby' should be, although this hobby is very important to me.
So, my last 2 projects are about amps. One of them is a 2A3 SE, to replace the previous 6S45 spud which had been serving my mid-high channels for years. 6S45 has a very clean and detail sound, and its 0.7W is already enough to drive my horns into deafeningly loud in my place. I liked it very much.
Now the 2A3 is almost 5x powerful!! And it really shows in the senses of solidity, weight, and inner tension of the sounds when they are called for (even though it's only working above 240Hz). Such character is subtle and I find it gradually as I listen to it more and more. And more I listen, it becomes more obvious and I love it more. I'm very happy to have this, even with my speakers untouched.
Unfortunately room acoustics is my sore spot🙁 My system is a living room setup. I can't afford a house with my own audio space. WAF aside, I myself also like a clean and simple looking style for living space, so room treatment is kept to a minimum, near inexistent.
The very live space is compensated by the narrow dispersions of my speakers. I'm not striving for the ultimate precise playback, so I'm OK with such situation. My biggest problem is ambient traffic noises. I live in a city. Crowded, noisy as you might imagine. 🙁
Recently I got a feeling that I can't do much on speakers and room. If I want to do something significant, I probably have to move the house first. That's far beyond what a 'hobby' should be, although this hobby is very important to me.
So, my last 2 projects are about amps. One of them is a 2A3 SE, to replace the previous 6S45 spud which had been serving my mid-high channels for years. 6S45 has a very clean and detail sound, and its 0.7W is already enough to drive my horns into deafeningly loud in my place. I liked it very much.
Now the 2A3 is almost 5x powerful!! And it really shows in the senses of solidity, weight, and inner tension of the sounds when they are called for (even though it's only working above 240Hz). Such character is subtle and I find it gradually as I listen to it more and more. And more I listen, it becomes more obvious and I love it more. I'm very happy to have this, even with my speakers untouched.
StigErik
Can you point me towards a decent class D amp design. I am planning my next set of OB's which will now be active, got talked into active by you guys.
I have purchased all of the speaker & DSP bits and am impatiently waiting for them to arrive. Now I need some amps to run the six drivers. You seem like a guy who knows his stuff & I would much rather take a recommendation from somebody like you than take a stab in the dark.🙂
David
Another convert to active! Wooooo hoooooo!
You'll discover something; they are much better.
Frank
You'll discover something; they are much better.
Frank
My class-D list (things that I know are good)
1. ICepower ASX2 series (only found in finished amps, like the HFX Micro)
2. Hypex UCD 400 HG
3. Powersoft modules (Powersoft - Home page)
1. ICepower ASX2 series (only found in finished amps, like the HFX Micro)
2. Hypex UCD 400 HG
3. Powersoft modules (Powersoft - Home page)
I just build a hypex amp 180W+180W with 500VA powersupply. Did a opamp upgrade and a little change to the input circuit to match my purposes.
A bout the amp. It is totally still with potentiometer open you have to put your ear at the cone to hear a light noise.
The sound is warm nice bass detailed a bit damped high tone. I say this comparing it to the sound of the Wega Vfet amplifier I have Same as the sony Ta 5650.
As for the Vfet I like the sound of it very warm low and fine dynamic high tones. Only the mid range isn't very clear of the vfet bud overall the best sounding amp i have.
But a nice sound to the ears doesn't mean it has the best amplification result.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/149260-v-fet-repair-wega-v4810-solid-state-heaven.html
Building amps is fun too! I built a 6V6-based amp (<10W) and now I'm building speakers. It's about finding a harmonious medium 😀....and the room it's all in makes more importance than many things1
Speaker vs. Amplifier
I work with designing speaker and I have done that for over 20 years.
I will say that amplifier is near to important as speaker, yes speaker is more easy to hear difference in short time, but in the long run. Amplifier is some time more important. Because the amplifier is what drive this tricky load that speaker are.
Digital Amplifier! I have not heard one that sounds good as analogue, yet. The day will come, but I have not seen it yet.
Best is amplifier from ABLETEC, hypex is ok, ICE Power you can use for Life style thing or other. The problem with these Digital designer guys is that they come from power supply. They count power and load, and than they design after this. Like the early days. 20W amplifier 8 Ohm load, than you need 1,6 A current capability. If you say so now in an analogue amplifier design, then they ask you what planet are you from or were have you been the last 40 years.
I did some simple measurement years ago, small speaker 6”, small amplifier <50W. One the scope I measured 8A peak current on music with a load of 4 Ohm =256W !!
We need more power= current than we think. And than look for the Power capacitors in some digital amplifier and compare with analogue design. This is not the hole true but part of it.
I work with designing speaker and I have done that for over 20 years.
I will say that amplifier is near to important as speaker, yes speaker is more easy to hear difference in short time, but in the long run. Amplifier is some time more important. Because the amplifier is what drive this tricky load that speaker are.
Digital Amplifier! I have not heard one that sounds good as analogue, yet. The day will come, but I have not seen it yet.
Best is amplifier from ABLETEC, hypex is ok, ICE Power you can use for Life style thing or other. The problem with these Digital designer guys is that they come from power supply. They count power and load, and than they design after this. Like the early days. 20W amplifier 8 Ohm load, than you need 1,6 A current capability. If you say so now in an analogue amplifier design, then they ask you what planet are you from or were have you been the last 40 years.
I did some simple measurement years ago, small speaker 6”, small amplifier <50W. One the scope I measured 8A peak current on music with a load of 4 Ohm =256W !!
We need more power= current than we think. And than look for the Power capacitors in some digital amplifier and compare with analogue design. This is not the hole true but part of it.
from the measurements part and current you're mentioning.
The hypex module has thd figures loaded open load almost the same result. Load independent total different from analogue amps behaviour.
Your mentioning a fault of a analogue amp as a pre. Because analogue amps output behave to the load, and with tube amps it is a huge influence that the reason they sound different.
The 180W hypex doesn't complain with a impedance down to 1Ohm and a current of 10A load in depended output. That is also the reson I wanted one for tuning and measuring my speaker design.
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I agree. I did the same with amps for ages (EE so I like to play with the electronics) but now I hardly bother at all and spend the time building the electronics for the fun, and to get devices that I can't buy commercially because of my specific needs.
Been using digital xovers for a while now, and am looking forward to my DEQX soon.
I think it is far more so than not, especially with digital.
I build loudspeakers because I can.
I build tube amps because I can.
I build a lot of things because I can ... and because I'm cheap.
I build tube amps because I can.
I build a lot of things because I can ... and because I'm cheap.
To "Speak" : it looks like you have an agenda against class-D techology....?
There are no digital amplifiers. They are class-D and analog.
The small caps you see around ICEpower amps are due to the fact that they have switched PSU's. No need for big bulky caps. And by the way, the smallest ICEpower amp (25W) can still deliver 20 amps without going into protection.....
ICEpower amps are on Stereophile's A-list of amps, worth mentioning..... 🙂
There are no digital amplifiers. They are class-D and analog.
The small caps you see around ICEpower amps are due to the fact that they have switched PSU's. No need for big bulky caps. And by the way, the smallest ICEpower amp (25W) can still deliver 20 amps without going into protection.....
ICEpower amps are on Stereophile's A-list of amps, worth mentioning..... 🙂
to show the difference between an analogue amp and a switching one.
A quality briston amp
thd -power
Bryston 7B SST2, THD+N (%) vs frequency at 14V into: 8 ohms (blue), 4 ohms (magenta), 2 ohms (red).
output -load. With our simulated loudspeaker, the variations in response remained within ±0.1dB limits
another solidstate amp.
Paravicini M100A, 4 ohm tap, THD+noise (%) vs frequency at (from top to bottom at 5kHz): 2.83V into simulated loudspeaker load, 4W into 2 ohms, 2W into 4 ohms, 1W into 8 ohms, 0.5W into 16 ohms.
Paravicini M100A, 8 ohm tap, frequency response at (from top to bottom at 2kHz): 2.83V into dummy loudspeaker load, 1W into 8 ohms, 2W into 4 ohms, 4W into 2 ohms (0.5dB/vertical div.).
compare with a kt66 tube amp.
and at last a switching amp. class d
So what I want to make clear, difference we can hear sure. Caused by load depended behaivour of the amplifier.
So to be sure the amp doesn't mess with the recording I want a amp that delivers enough current without dropping in output voltage. So I need a powerfull power-supply and end-stage. Or a loudspeaker with flat impedance correct 8 ohm load.
A quality briston amp
thd -power
Bryston 7B SST2, THD+N (%) vs frequency at 14V into: 8 ohms (blue), 4 ohms (magenta), 2 ohms (red).
output -load. With our simulated loudspeaker, the variations in response remained within ±0.1dB limits
another solidstate amp.
Paravicini M100A, 4 ohm tap, THD+noise (%) vs frequency at (from top to bottom at 5kHz): 2.83V into simulated loudspeaker load, 4W into 2 ohms, 2W into 4 ohms, 1W into 8 ohms, 0.5W into 16 ohms.
Paravicini M100A, 8 ohm tap, frequency response at (from top to bottom at 2kHz): 2.83V into dummy loudspeaker load, 1W into 8 ohms, 2W into 4 ohms, 4W into 2 ohms (0.5dB/vertical div.).
compare with a kt66 tube amp.
and at last a switching amp. class d
So what I want to make clear, difference we can hear sure. Caused by load depended behaivour of the amplifier.
So to be sure the amp doesn't mess with the recording I want a amp that delivers enough current without dropping in output voltage. So I need a powerfull power-supply and end-stage. Or a loudspeaker with flat impedance correct 8 ohm load.
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