They are rather prone to be glued to the road....
No doubt they have the less reliable engines of almost
all the automotive german industry...
There are several people (Dan Wright, John Tucker, etc.) that mod these units (and others) and they seem to all agree that the digital side is pretty good, but that the analog side can use a fair amount of work to bring them up to their full potential.
As far as "turntable wow and flutter, disc centering error, or stamper physical stretching/distortion on being pulled from the master", CD players and discs can have many of these same problems. We're addressing mechanical problems in driving or even in the production of the actual discs and to assume that because the music is in a digital format that the discs or players wouldn't suffer from the same sort of problems is wishful thinking at best.
This issue is perhaps one reason that people that have gone to music servers find the reproduction of the music is substancially better. For some the convience is a high priority, but for many others that's just the icing on the cake.
Best Regards,
TerryO
I would love to read more of that digital filter stuff ( apodizing attribute, NOS, whats wrong with 96? ) . Personally played around with FIR coefficients at a point in time, but ultimately decided that a digital crossover is much more interesting, perhaps fancy oversampling is not even worth the time ( you can upsample on PC afterall, right...) .
Apodizing approach seems interesting because I noticed on a few remastered CD's ,that theres nothing above 18khz, but crud.
I beleive compressed sensing has future in audio.
Sure, but they don't need to affect the sound. They can be entirely designed to have no effect. Not so on LP - that I think was jcx's point.
Yes, but that's beside the point. The format is digital - when the right bits are coming off, its all irrelevant. Not so with LP.
Seeing so many of you seem to believe that I am a stupid old man who imagines hearing differences, where present theory says there shouldn't be,
I have attached a link to the "Current Mirror" thread of November 2008.
Homemodder simulated the improvements, and Ostripper actually tried what I said. Also, the thread was started by AKSA, who was aware of what several DIYAudio members in Sydney had been doing, and in fact fitted the diode to the CM in one of his commercial amplifiers, with improved results.
Later, Hugh found that Halcro had patented that in 1999, which was some time after we had been using a more refined version of it.
Ostipper nicknamed his modified amplifier "Eerie"
G.K. did of course attempt to disrail the thread with comments of "Group think".
Some high profile members participated in this thread.
SandyK
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/133018-current-mirror-discussion-13.html
P.S.
Obviously, I am an embarrassment to the more "learned " members of this forum, so I will no longer participate in this thread.
However, the original comparison BluSpec CDs from Sony have led to a Japanese market with many new regular releses on a regular basis.
They must all have been conned by Sony !!!
It seems a shame that Jan is unwilling to even ask Sony for an explanation of their claims.
Jan is a highly respected technical journalist of many years standing, and almost certainly known of by Sony Engineering staff.
I have attached a link to the "Current Mirror" thread of November 2008.
Homemodder simulated the improvements, and Ostripper actually tried what I said. Also, the thread was started by AKSA, who was aware of what several DIYAudio members in Sydney had been doing, and in fact fitted the diode to the CM in one of his commercial amplifiers, with improved results.
Later, Hugh found that Halcro had patented that in 1999, which was some time after we had been using a more refined version of it.
Ostipper nicknamed his modified amplifier "Eerie"
G.K. did of course attempt to disrail the thread with comments of "Group think".
Some high profile members participated in this thread.
SandyK
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/133018-current-mirror-discussion-13.html
P.S.
Obviously, I am an embarrassment to the more "learned " members of this forum, so I will no longer participate in this thread.
However, the original comparison BluSpec CDs from Sony have led to a Japanese market with many new regular releses on a regular basis.
They must all have been conned by Sony !!!
It seems a shame that Jan is unwilling to even ask Sony for an explanation of their claims.
Jan is a highly respected technical journalist of many years standing, and almost certainly known of by Sony Engineering staff.
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It is not beside the point. The point is that the right bits may be coming off, but they may be affected by jitter or other noise that is passed to the DAC and analog sections. Those sections may, or may not, deal well with the noise.
That was the point.
panomaniac
Again only a subjective report, but it may come down to what you are used to listening to /for.
In a recent upload where I gave you a link to a report that I do not wish to make public, because of privacy issues, there was also another participant that clearly identified differences between both sets of uploaded .wav files.
He was an 80yo retired U.S. Professor of Music.
SandyK
P.S.
Sorry, I couldn't help responding on this occasion.
Richard will be aware of a certain album that waas uploaded in it's entirety for test purposes.It transpires that a group of BBC people were blown away by the quality of the upload, even commenting that it appeared to have been recorded using high quality valve equipment,
and how analogue it sounded.
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No, actually the only person saying that is you.
I _do_ think that you are incorrectly attributing the differences you hear in identical files, and that if you carefully identify and systematically examine all of the other variables in your playback that you will find the real answer. If two files have the same md5 checksum, any differences are very definitely _not_ in the files.
panomaniac
I notice from Filemail reports of downloads, that you do not appear to have bothered to DL the comparison files directly to a USB pen ,as you said you would in a message to me. I have consistently recommended that these files be downloaded directly to non moving media such a USB pen, or even a SSD.
Even if you personally, were unable to hear these differences, it would have given the opportunity for friends with suitable eqipment to also have a listen.
SandyK
And if bits are affected by jitter, what's the problem? If they're affected by noise, what's the problem? Bits are still bits. Are you saying that the noise is going to turn a 0 into 1 or vice versa? If not then where's the problem in having noisy bits?
Noise could turn a 0 into a 1. And besides getting the bits right is one thing, but their timing has to be perfectly in sync too.
dave
dave
I don't think so. The signal coming off a turntable can be made independent of any mechanical imperfection (except the case where this is truly macroscopic!!). If most turntables are affected by this it doesn't mean it is impossible. It is a question of basic principles (relative motion and inertial systems in this case) that involves the full system down to the stylus.
I don't know any disc-based digital source where the mechanics is not affected by imperfections and vibrations. And many of the corrections, I think, can be rather arbitrary. They are all based on interpolation.
45
Oh, I was under the impression we'd got beyond digital errors in the course of this thread. Of course, I admit they could happen, but that's on an incompetently designed player. Aren't we limiting this to reasonably well-engineered devices?
Not necessary at the transport stage, which is what I thought the context of this discussion was.
It does exist and yes it is "conventional" but not in the principles. For example there is a tonearm and a cartridge but unlike any conventional turntable they behave as a true one-body entity. Unlike any other it has a self-instantaneous antiskating instead of an average one. It is totally vibration free. All the blocks are coupled ONLY at 1Hz or below, above that they are isolated one from each other and from the external word to realize an practical (real and not ideal) inertial system (i.e. where the resultant of forces is zero) with the highest possible rigidity in the working (audio) band......
You should at least explain in principle why they are not. Until then they are.
45
This would be because interpolation only happens once there are so many errors that they cannot be corrected. Go back through the thread and find the link to the Stereophile article I cited - its an exceedingly rare occurrence for a disk in reasonable condition to give rise to uncorrectable errors.
Then pray show us this perfect turntable. Perhaps some of us would like to order one.
There are plenty of publications on the CD error correction strategy, some of them even correct. The underlying math is pretty stiff. I remember it giving me headaches in 3rd or 4th year computer science engineering. That's after two years of studying mathematics almost exclusively ...
And then there are the various published tests of the 80s and 90s that counted raw errors, corrected errors, interpolated errors, and muted errors off commercial CD transports. The conclusion was invariably that they were rare and incapable of affecting long-term sound quality.
So if you think that with CD you're listening long-term to interpolations, approximations, or synthesised sounds, well, then your thinking is wrong.
It's always funny to read about jitter, 0's turning into 1's... So how comes my CD transport which is jittery, connected to a DAC in my receiver, using a coaxial cable which is prone to introduce even more jitter... can perfectly decode a DTS signal embedded in this prone-to-be-faulty PCM stream... where every bit counts or it couldn't be decoded?
Because jitter, when not absurdly high, does not affect data integrity on this type of slow interface. And as proven before in this thread, SPDIF passes the data faultlessly, under normal conditions.
Now if you have an old fridge switching on and off near the system ...
Now if you have an old fridge switching on and off near the system ...
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