Even with all the upgrades I've made to my Suppo, I still come out cheaper than if I bought a PCB, parts, chassis and tubes and made my own (which is still a good deal). I've had friends over who have more expensive systems, and they were impressed with the Suppo, especially as a power amp connected to a DIY EF86 tube preamp.
Ultimately, I plan on purchasing one of TubeLab's Simple P-P kits and building a better EL84 P-P amp, but for now, I'm having fun with this one.
Ultimately, I plan on purchasing one of TubeLab's Simple P-P kits and building a better EL84 P-P amp, but for now, I'm having fun with this one.
Didnt want to be unfair. For a real good diy tube amp see solderingpoint.com
You can build it for less than 130 Euro and it is high quality. Maybe ive seen too many bad amps from china, so i apologize
I don't like where you are taking this topic Thorsten.
Tell me, where in the world will you buy a chassis, a power transformer and two output transformers for that kind of money. (not to mention the other components)
To comment on the "high quality" statement, do you consider using 1000µF caps as cathode decoupling, both in driver and powerstage cathodes, good design?
Feel free to comment on the schematic design of the Suppo "golden voice", as I value everybody's technical or non technical opinion.
But don't discuss a pcb that is really very well designed. (apart from the missing thermal relief on the ground pads)
On topic, measured the 6N1's that came with my amp, one is almost dead, so that explains the difference in channels. Will buy a matched and balanced pair, as my other 6N1p's are good, but not identical twins either.
Time to work on the Suppo will be limited the next few days, I have a Marshall 9100 and a Marshall 9200 on the bench, they need servicing and conversion to the later 50/50 and 100/100.
Hi to all: I understand that you all like this amp. But please let me tell you: some products from china are excellent, some are not, believe me. So heres the calculation of the EL 84 SE compact: PCB is 27 Euro, Parts 15 Euro, Tube Sockets 3 Euro, Russian Tubes (like them) 17 Euro, power transformer 26 euro, Output transformers 50 Euro in Total 138. OK, does not include an enclosure, but i make mine of MDF, pretty inexpensive. Can be much cheaper if you buy for example used Grundig OPTs for 10 Euro on ebay. And some of the parts you may have on hand. So please tell me: What is more fun? Build yourself a nice little god sounding amp, or rebuild a chinese amp?
Best regards Thorsten
I can speciafy what's most fun for me, but not for someone else...
Most fun:
Design myself, build myself, listen to it, improve it, and enjoy the sound with others.
Maybe less fun, but equally challenging:
Buy a good price/quality ratio amp. Even a relatively cheap one.
Listen to it.
Figuring out what I like about it and what I don't like about it.
Figuring out why it sounds the way it sounds.
Altering the schematic to correct what I don't like,
without destroying the things I like.
Listen to it some more and maybe start over again.
Most of the time, there is a limit in what you can improve
before starting to throw money at it.
Like with this Suppo, to make it really great, it needs better
output transformers. In my filosophy, that's not allowed.
So I change the amp to triode mode, 20x lower Ri, so better
frequency response... Needed 4 resistors and
a bit of alteration of the PCB... That's my kinda fun.
Result is almost as good as it will ever get.
Next step is changing the 6N1's to better paired/matched.
Then I will try to enhance the driver/phasesplitter stage.
After that, I will probably sell it to make room...
To me, the fun ends when it is all finished and I will start
the next project...
The years when I had fun sticking parts on a pcb that somebody
else has designed from scratch are behind me, too much to do and
so little time to do it...
Most fun:
Design myself, build myself, listen to it, improve it, and enjoy the sound with others.
Maybe less fun, but equally challenging:
Buy a good price/quality ratio amp. Even a relatively cheap one.
Listen to it.
Figuring out what I like about it and what I don't like about it.
Figuring out why it sounds the way it sounds.
Altering the schematic to correct what I don't like,
without destroying the things I like.
Listen to it some more and maybe start over again.
Most of the time, there is a limit in what you can improve
before starting to throw money at it.
Like with this Suppo, to make it really great, it needs better
output transformers. In my filosophy, that's not allowed.
So I change the amp to triode mode, 20x lower Ri, so better
frequency response... Needed 4 resistors and
a bit of alteration of the PCB... That's my kinda fun.
Result is almost as good as it will ever get.
Next step is changing the 6N1's to better paired/matched.
Then I will try to enhance the driver/phasesplitter stage.
After that, I will probably sell it to make room...
To me, the fun ends when it is all finished and I will start
the next project...
The years when I had fun sticking parts on a pcb that somebody
else has designed from scratch are behind me, too much to do and
so little time to do it...
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One thing I could point out is that (from what you wrote) you're talking about a Single Ended amp, which is rather a different ballpark.
I enjoy rebuilding amps, it's something different from building them from the ground up, presenting interesting challenges. Sure, some Chinese amps are bad sounding, poorly made paperweights, but the same can be said about amps from any country. This happens to be quite a well made amp at an excellent price. If you pick your dealer, you get high quality products. I understand if you've been burned by buying Chinese amps before, but that's no reason to pick on this amp without even looking at it.
G'day guys,
I put my order in for one of these amps and will review it here when it arrives.
Could someone please be so kind as to recommend for me an appropriate fuse (ie. rating, type) for the GV-3 model that uses a 100VA transformer? I am told it does not come with a fuse natively and it seems a very important thing to add from a safety perspective.
Many thanks. 🙂
I put my order in for one of these amps and will review it here when it arrives.
Could someone please be so kind as to recommend for me an appropriate fuse (ie. rating, type) for the GV-3 model that uses a 100VA transformer? I am told it does not come with a fuse natively and it seems a very important thing to add from a safety perspective.
Many thanks. 🙂
I don't have my Suppo at hand, so I can't tell you what I use, but I just did some quick calculations and I believe somewhere around 500mA should be right.
The Suppo Ausio site has it specified at max 80 watt power consumtion. From your flag I take it that you're on 230/240volt. So, as long as I've done this right:
80 watts / 230 volts = 350mA
IIRC the closest going up is 500mA, which should be fine.
Many thanks for that MellowTone, I'll pick a couple up from Jaycar next week. 🙂
I take it then that you're pretty satisfied with the sonics from your amp, have you performed any mods on it or have you any plans to?
Also while I'm at it, did your amp come with a DPST switch and is the IEC Earth physically connected to the chassis?
Cheers.
Hello,
I hope you did not connect the G2 directly with the anode without using a 100Ohm resistor. A direct connection might work but you risk oscillation.
I would also add a input capacitor in case one of the input tubes fails (anode-grid connection ), 33nF 630V DC WimaMKP / FKP or similar might save your source.
Best regards,
George
😕 Please explain how oscillation can occur by coupling g2 to anode directly. In this case, on a 6P15 tube. imho it is impossible, but please enlighten me if I'm missing something.
I do that, but on the output of the DAC, not inside the amp.
33nF is way too small for a 100k input impedance (in my case 50k, since I use a different potentiometer). And 350V will do in combination with this amp.
Can the Suppo amp safely accept 6922 tubes?
It says the 6N1's can be substituted for 6DJ8's on the website but no mention of 6922's.
It says the 6N1's can be substituted for 6DJ8's on the website but no mention of 6922's.
Max plate voltage for a 6922 is 220V (according to the datasheet)
So I wouldn't try it in the Suppo.
So I wouldn't try it in the Suppo.
Review:
I purchased the Suppo due to the price an my past enjoyment of el84-based amps. Due to a crazy work schedule, it's simply been sitting on my shelf for the past two months. When I finally got a chance to hook it up last night I had what's probably the scariest audio experience yet...
Source was an mp3 player and output some easy to drive minimonitors. I was preparing a shootout with the Miniwatt, which had just been in the same setup and performed very nicely. The instant I flicked the power switch on the Soppo, the far right tube lit up with rings of flickering snapping white-purple electrical activity that looked like something generated by a tesla coil. This is not tube glow - something much larger and more intense. My finger was still on the switch at this point and I flicked it off. Probably the most scared I've been while dealing with audiogear, and certainly the first time this happened to me (owned 20 or so amps).
As a scientist, felt the need to replicate this, so I flicked it on again for a second with a broom handle. Again, crazy visual and sound effects.
Pros: I didn't die.
Whatever happened did not destroy the speakers.
Weighty transfomer, pleasant design.
Cons: Very scary.
I purchased the Suppo due to the price an my past enjoyment of el84-based amps. Due to a crazy work schedule, it's simply been sitting on my shelf for the past two months. When I finally got a chance to hook it up last night I had what's probably the scariest audio experience yet...
Source was an mp3 player and output some easy to drive minimonitors. I was preparing a shootout with the Miniwatt, which had just been in the same setup and performed very nicely. The instant I flicked the power switch on the Soppo, the far right tube lit up with rings of flickering snapping white-purple electrical activity that looked like something generated by a tesla coil. This is not tube glow - something much larger and more intense. My finger was still on the switch at this point and I flicked it off. Probably the most scared I've been while dealing with audiogear, and certainly the first time this happened to me (owned 20 or so amps).
As a scientist, felt the need to replicate this, so I flicked it on again for a second with a broom handle. Again, crazy visual and sound effects.
Pros: I didn't die.
Whatever happened did not destroy the speakers.
Weighty transfomer, pleasant design.
Cons: Very scary.
Bad output tube, get some replacements, open up the amplifier and replace any damaged components. (Screen grid resistor, cathode bias resistor and cap assuming this was an output tube.)
As a scientist you should have recognized the symptoms of ionizing gas inside the envelope of said tube and possibly resisted the temptation to do something a la tubelab: "blow it up and then back it off just a little.." It goes something like that.... 😀😀😀
As a scientist you should have recognized the symptoms of ionizing gas inside the envelope of said tube and possibly resisted the temptation to do something a la tubelab: "blow it up and then back it off just a little.." It goes something like that.... 😀😀😀
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Hi Ang
I think this must be the problem of the tube's problem
To Kavin, I guess this could be a very minor crack on the tube that casue leaking. then cause ionization. But on the other hand, is it 300V high enough to cause the ionizing?
Joe
I think this must be the problem of the tube's problem
To Kavin, I guess this could be a very minor crack on the tube that casue leaking. then cause ionization. But on the other hand, is it 300V high enough to cause the ionizing?
Joe
Hey Joe,
Can you tell me the process of assembly or how much of it is involved with the Commander EL34 Silver? Basically the actual amount of assembly as offered on your website at the price stated.
I am interested in this amp. I understand and can do the installation of the tubes.
You seemed to be a person who stands behind your product and cares about your customers and that means a lot.
Thanks,
Rob
Thanks Rob,
The Commander EL34 v1 is in stock ready to ship. Since there are some minor problems, we only sell it as DIY components for experienced people.
however, I have like to ask you to wait for a few more days 🙂( ) for The commander, EL34 V2, if you can. We keep improving our EL34*8 Mono block in this year. We are applying those experience learn from the large machine onto these small machines. Now the V2 is a different level machine with
new circuit design focusing on controlling power to increase accuracy,
new transformers,
new volume meter, power switches.
or can you send me your email address, I will info you when the EL34 V2 is ready to ship.
thanks
Joe
The Commander EL34 v1 is in stock ready to ship. Since there are some minor problems, we only sell it as DIY components for experienced people.
however, I have like to ask you to wait for a few more days 🙂( ) for The commander, EL34 V2, if you can. We keep improving our EL34*8 Mono block in this year. We are applying those experience learn from the large machine onto these small machines. Now the V2 is a different level machine with
new circuit design focusing on controlling power to increase accuracy,
new transformers,
new volume meter, power switches.
or can you send me your email address, I will info you when the EL34 V2 is ready to ship.
thanks
Joe
Hi there,
I wanted to try a tube amp. Compared and read few posts. After reading all these posts, I decided to order the Suppo EL84 amp. Within couple of weeks, I received the amp. When I first opened the box, I realized two things, one the amp had rattling sound inside it and the other one was, preamp tubes were 12AT7 instead of 6N1P. When I opened up the amp, I realized that the one of the power supply caps was detached and the other one was loose. I solder them back, installed the supplied tubes and fired the amp. I have very good quality SS amp, diy Nelson F5 amp and good quality cd player. Compared to two amps this sounded more detailed and better. It was a good surprise especially compared to other one being 10 times more expensive. Only one thing I did not like about this was it was not as clean sounding as what I am used to listening to. I decided to modify this amp. First I converted it back to 6N1P driver tube. Replaced driver and power tubes with Russian EV tubes. Now it sounded cleaner and musical, the way I like it. (Between 12AT7 vs 6N1P, it’s your choice. I preferred 6N1P). In next mode, I removed stock RCA connection, volume pot and connected DIY RCA silver cable directly to the circuit without volume pot. I like to use remote control for volume and changing sources. So currently I am using SS amp as preamp. This mod brought major change in sound quality. The transparency went way beyond my expectation. My next mode was to replace all caps and rectifier with schottky diodes. I used ASC, MTube for power supply and Teflon cap for decoupling, silver mica and film for pF values and Elna caps. I even changed the IEC socket, fuse & speaker terminals. All these changes were implemented together so can not distinguish effect of each change but it brought the amp to close to the sound I was looking for, very clean from top to bottom, detailed, airy, very firm sound stage & transparent. All these mods cost me more than this amp itself. Is it worth? I would say is debatable. The minimum few mods I recommend for this amp is volume pot, RCA cable with better shielding, two film caps in power supply - one next to electrolytic (20 -50 uF bypass with 0.1 uF) and one replacing 22uF for driver tubes. All other modes are at your discretions. You may not get enough return on your investment. This amp is well though off and it is a good value.
Have fun doing what you do…..
Creek
I wanted to try a tube amp. Compared and read few posts. After reading all these posts, I decided to order the Suppo EL84 amp. Within couple of weeks, I received the amp. When I first opened the box, I realized two things, one the amp had rattling sound inside it and the other one was, preamp tubes were 12AT7 instead of 6N1P. When I opened up the amp, I realized that the one of the power supply caps was detached and the other one was loose. I solder them back, installed the supplied tubes and fired the amp. I have very good quality SS amp, diy Nelson F5 amp and good quality cd player. Compared to two amps this sounded more detailed and better. It was a good surprise especially compared to other one being 10 times more expensive. Only one thing I did not like about this was it was not as clean sounding as what I am used to listening to. I decided to modify this amp. First I converted it back to 6N1P driver tube. Replaced driver and power tubes with Russian EV tubes. Now it sounded cleaner and musical, the way I like it. (Between 12AT7 vs 6N1P, it’s your choice. I preferred 6N1P). In next mode, I removed stock RCA connection, volume pot and connected DIY RCA silver cable directly to the circuit without volume pot. I like to use remote control for volume and changing sources. So currently I am using SS amp as preamp. This mod brought major change in sound quality. The transparency went way beyond my expectation. My next mode was to replace all caps and rectifier with schottky diodes. I used ASC, MTube for power supply and Teflon cap for decoupling, silver mica and film for pF values and Elna caps. I even changed the IEC socket, fuse & speaker terminals. All these changes were implemented together so can not distinguish effect of each change but it brought the amp to close to the sound I was looking for, very clean from top to bottom, detailed, airy, very firm sound stage & transparent. All these mods cost me more than this amp itself. Is it worth? I would say is debatable. The minimum few mods I recommend for this amp is volume pot, RCA cable with better shielding, two film caps in power supply - one next to electrolytic (20 -50 uF bypass with 0.1 uF) and one replacing 22uF for driver tubes. All other modes are at your discretions. You may not get enough return on your investment. This amp is well though off and it is a good value.
Have fun doing what you do…..
Creek
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