Thank you for the heads-up!
Anyway, I tried the suppo amp with:
output: Manley (Reflektor) EL84M, Philips NOS EL84, Genalex Golden Lion
driver: 6N1, Voskhod 6N1P-EV, RCA cleartop 6FQ7 (NOS mexico)
I end up liking the Golden Lion + 6N1P-EV combination the best.
The Philips come close, the Reflektor was too harsh in my opinion.
The cleartop sounded too laiback combined with the golden lions in my opinion.
It could be that the cleartops are a good match for the Reflektors, I have to try that out sometime.
The voshkods were really cheap, I bought them for $12 on eBay, but the greatest improvement were the Golden Lions, which unfortunately set me back $100 incl overseas shipping.
Hi Hanzwillem,
I agree with your listening impressions of the Genelex Gold Lion EL84/RCA clear top 6FQ7 combination. It is more laid back than the Gold Lion/6N1P-EV, which I have tried too. My preference is for that laid back sound with my 97-98dB sensitive Klipsch Forte II speakers in my modest-sized listening room. With the Russian 6N1P-EV driver tubes, the sound had more bite than I wanted.
In any case, there's not doubt that this amp does fine with the Gold Lion EL84s as power tubes.
I agree with your listening impressions of the Genelex Gold Lion EL84/RCA clear top 6FQ7 combination. It is more laid back than the Gold Lion/6N1P-EV, which I have tried too. My preference is for that laid back sound with my 97-98dB sensitive Klipsch Forte II speakers in my modest-sized listening room. With the Russian 6N1P-EV driver tubes, the sound had more bite than I wanted.
In any case, there's not doubt that this amp does fine with the Gold Lion EL84s as power tubes.
Well maybe PayPal thinks they're related and currently blocks Suppo Audio from the system? Can anyone confirm that the buy-link doesn't lead anywhere or is it working for someone else?
Anyway I wrote to the adresses from the site, hopefully I will get an answer soon because I've gotten really excited for this amp
First of all, let me start by telling I'm happy with my Suppo "Golden Voice".
Contact with Joe and Ara was great, shipping to Belgium took 4 weeks, wich
I consider normal. Packing was perfect. And the amp worked perfect.
Finish is fine, considering the price...
Speakers: Focal Chorus 836V
amp to compare with: Musical Fidelity A3 dual mono
source: modded Denon 1550AR modded + Twistedpearaudio Wolfson DAC
I agree with everybody who commented that the potentiometer is poor
quality, mine favoured the left channel
But the sound, please guys, I don't want to offend anyone but I've heard
better sounding 70's amps!
Bass is overly pronounced and certainly not well controlled or deep.
mid-bass is weak
mid-high strong, maybe even slightly distorted
high clear but top-end is weak.
No need to do measurement, this was clear.
Also tried Telefunken, Siemens and JJ EL84's, sound was different, but not really "better".
I talked about the sound to Lucian, who suggested to convert the little rascal
to triode mode.
Some calculations done and out with the screwdriver, dremel and soldering iron.
Isolating g2 with the dremel was easy on 3 tubes, but the most left tube socket
has to be removed to be able to dremel as close as possible to the g2 pad.
Destroyed the socket in the process, had to replace that one.
Now the difficult part, removing the 6 cathode resistors.
Ground pads have no heat isolation (don't know how those pad are named in English),
oldskool pcb, had too apply loads of heat, but the quality of the pcb is good enough
to withstand this abuse.
Placed two 390 Ohms resistors per channel (that makes a 195 Ohm common cathode resistor) to bias correctly for
triode mode.
Soldered a bridge wire from pin 7 to pin 9 to wire the 6P15's for triode.
Left nfb as it was.
The result:
No noise, no hum...
Clearly extended bandwidth, bass goes deep now and is better controlled.
mid-high disto is gone. high is clearly there now, very well detailed.
weak low-mid is still a problem (but better than in penthode mode), I presume that this is caused by the output transformers.
Overall, a very cheap upgrade, left all other components original.
Changing tubes did not work wonders for me, not even in triode mode.
(JJ was a bit better in the low-mid region, but nothing really worth mentioning)
btw, power is still enough to drive the Focal's, I didn't buy this amp to play music at dancehall sound levels...
Contact with Joe and Ara was great, shipping to Belgium took 4 weeks, wich
I consider normal. Packing was perfect. And the amp worked perfect.
Finish is fine, considering the price...
Speakers: Focal Chorus 836V
amp to compare with: Musical Fidelity A3 dual mono
source: modded Denon 1550AR modded + Twistedpearaudio Wolfson DAC
I agree with everybody who commented that the potentiometer is poor
quality, mine favoured the left channel
But the sound, please guys, I don't want to offend anyone but I've heard
better sounding 70's amps!
Bass is overly pronounced and certainly not well controlled or deep.
mid-bass is weak
mid-high strong, maybe even slightly distorted
high clear but top-end is weak.
No need to do measurement, this was clear.
Also tried Telefunken, Siemens and JJ EL84's, sound was different, but not really "better".
I talked about the sound to Lucian, who suggested to convert the little rascal
to triode mode.
Some calculations done and out with the screwdriver, dremel and soldering iron.
Isolating g2 with the dremel was easy on 3 tubes, but the most left tube socket
has to be removed to be able to dremel as close as possible to the g2 pad.
Destroyed the socket in the process, had to replace that one.
Now the difficult part, removing the 6 cathode resistors.
Ground pads have no heat isolation (don't know how those pad are named in English),
oldskool pcb, had too apply loads of heat, but the quality of the pcb is good enough
to withstand this abuse.
Placed two 390 Ohms resistors per channel (that makes a 195 Ohm common cathode resistor) to bias correctly for
triode mode.
Soldered a bridge wire from pin 7 to pin 9 to wire the 6P15's for triode.
Left nfb as it was.
The result:
No noise, no hum...
Clearly extended bandwidth, bass goes deep now and is better controlled.
mid-high disto is gone. high is clearly there now, very well detailed.
weak low-mid is still a problem (but better than in penthode mode), I presume that this is caused by the output transformers.
Overall, a very cheap upgrade, left all other components original.
Changing tubes did not work wonders for me, not even in triode mode.
(JJ was a bit better in the low-mid region, but nothing really worth mentioning)
btw, power is still enough to drive the Focal's, I didn't buy this amp to play music at dancehall sound levels...
Last edited:
I agree this amp has a lot of distortion, its bass is indeed weak and clear highs are missing. But this is not the point in this amp. Together with my Focal micro Utopia Be the soundsstage is huge. The music it plays is soo involving! The exact reason why I bought the Utopias. With my previous profiles this was just not possible. They made great sound, but not great music. The same with my Audiozone INT SS. Although that amp is so correct and has huge bandwidth it is also boring compared to the rich sound of the Suppo with Golden Lion + 6N1P-EV combination. That holographic sound is just there. The depth and heigth of the soundstage is so much more enjoyable.
In the end I like this amp a lot during this snowy winter.
At the moment I am in the middle of converting my Aleph 30 into a Pass F5. I suspect when that one is ready it will wipe the floor with the Suppo.
I guess this amp is not a great match for big floorstanders. They better match time aligned 2-ways or broadband driver speakers.
In the end I like this amp a lot during this snowy winter.
At the moment I am in the middle of converting my Aleph 30 into a Pass F5. I suspect when that one is ready it will wipe the floor with the Suppo.
I guess this amp is not a great match for big floorstanders. They better match time aligned 2-ways or broadband driver speakers.
Sorry, I didn't have time to take pictures... Maybe later...
Schematic marked up:
In red: where to cut
In purple: new connections and changed cathode resistor value.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And the new (triode) schematic:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Thanks OneeyedK, I'm going to study this one.
I agree that this amp isn't the last statement in amps, but like Hanzwillem, I really enjoy listening to music through this amp with my Klipsch Forte II speakers. For the money and small additional investment to improve the amp, it can sound really good.
I agree that this amp isn't the last statement in amps, but like Hanzwillem, I really enjoy listening to music through this amp with my Klipsch Forte II speakers. For the money and small additional investment to improve the amp, it can sound really good.
Last edited:
Just take your time and listen to it some more.
You will realise that it can play some types of music very well, but other types will be completely ruined in penthode mode.
With the high efficiency of the Klipsch, switching to triode mode will certainly be an ear opener.
The process is fairly simple, cut the traces to pin 9 of every EL84. (make the cut at least 1mm wide, we don't want sparks, do we?)
Remove the 6 cathode resistors (cut them away, don't bother to solder them out, needs too much heat and takes a lot of time).
Replace them with 4 390 Ohms resistors. (I placed them on the other side of the board, now I can switch back to penthode without unscrewing the pcb)
And solder a small wire from pin 9 to pin 7 of every EL84.
Please Joe, if you read this, in next design, please use thermal relief pads for ground connections! It would make modding so much easier.
My amp also presents a phase error between channels, frequency related, so I'm suspecting the coupling caps.
Some might say "huge soundstage", I say phase error.
A lot of the recordings I'm listening to, are recordings I made myself, and know very well. If the soundstage is not as I intended it to be, sound reproduction is wrong.
Might be something wrong with the bias of the cathodyne (concertina) phase splitter too.
Could the people with the "great" pré amp tubes please measure DC voltages over R6, R8, R16 and R17? (amp in idle) That information would be a great help to me.
If I really detested the sound of the amp, I would stop working on it
You will realise that it can play some types of music very well, but other types will be completely ruined in penthode mode.
With the high efficiency of the Klipsch, switching to triode mode will certainly be an ear opener.
The process is fairly simple, cut the traces to pin 9 of every EL84. (make the cut at least 1mm wide, we don't want sparks, do we?)
Remove the 6 cathode resistors (cut them away, don't bother to solder them out, needs too much heat and takes a lot of time).
Replace them with 4 390 Ohms resistors. (I placed them on the other side of the board, now I can switch back to penthode without unscrewing the pcb)
And solder a small wire from pin 9 to pin 7 of every EL84.
Please Joe, if you read this, in next design, please use thermal relief pads for ground connections! It would make modding so much easier.
My amp also presents a phase error between channels, frequency related, so I'm suspecting the coupling caps.
Some might say "huge soundstage", I say phase error.
A lot of the recordings I'm listening to, are recordings I made myself, and know very well. If the soundstage is not as I intended it to be, sound reproduction is wrong.
Might be something wrong with the bias of the cathodyne (concertina) phase splitter too.
Could the people with the "great" pré amp tubes please measure DC voltages over R6, R8, R16 and R17? (amp in idle) That information would be a great help to me.
If I really detested the sound of the amp, I would stop working on it
Last edited:
Yeah, this was a pain in the A$5 when I replaced the coupling caps...
You are probably right. The effect is almost like if I switch "3D sound" on my flatscreen, but then in a good way. In the end, for singer song writer music I most listen to I like it a lot. Until I may get tired of it.
If I remember correctly, mid-bass of the Diablo Utopia is strong but well rounded and the mid-high of those speakers is smooth voiced.
Combine that with the lower efficiëncy and the combination will sound better...
I think that is why you didn't find the 6N1P-EV cold or harsh either.
If you're into singer songwriter stuff, I included a recording I made in my living room from a friend of mine. It has a lot of errors in the low frequencies, but we only had 15 minutes before I had to turn the living room back to normal
(if you get what I mean)
--> big file, so maybe it's best to download it first...
Sredlov
Combine that with the lower efficiëncy and the combination will sound better...
I think that is why you didn't find the 6N1P-EV cold or harsh either.
If you're into singer songwriter stuff, I included a recording I made in my living room from a friend of mine. It has a lot of errors in the low frequencies, but we only had 15 minutes before I had to turn the living room back to normal
(if you get what I mean)
--> big file, so maybe it's best to download it first...
Sredlov
Last edited:
Hi to all, forget this cheap china ****. Have you seen pictures of the pcb, the bad soldering points? Any fuses inside? Cheap components! Buy a good tube amplifier (very expensive) or buy a good solid state amplifier (not so expensive). You will have more fun and you dont risk to burn down your house, best regards Thorsten
Luckily this is DIYaudio.com so everybody here can mod it as he wants. It is a great starting kit for the price.
I strongly do not recommend it to leave it as it is (loose screws and no fuse), but who buys an amp here on DIY without modifying it?
Ive seen inside expensive tube amp too, same quality PCB as China! Probably made in China, haha.
If you're into singer songwriter stuff, I included a recording I made in my living room from a friend of mine. It has a lot of errors in the low frequencies, but we only had 15 minutes before I had to turn the living room back to normal
(if you get what I mean)
--> big file, so maybe it's best to download it first...
Sredlov
Thanks for sharing that song. You managed to capture the feeling really fine. I enjoyed listening to it. Although I think the singer sometimes has too much lower weight. (through the Audiozone INT btw, the suppo is back to the other room).
I paid US$100 for my China amp, and $20 to modify it and make it safe. A fuse was already fitted into the mains IEC connector.
About the same cost as buying a pair of mediocre o/p transformers that are about the same sonically as the ones already in the amp.
Compare that with the $600 it would cost me to make an amp of similar specifications, that looks as good.
I know about building my own: I have two SE point-wired amps here that I built. No PCBs in my homebuilt amps, but built from scrapped equipment that cost as much as the little Chinese amp did.
There is no "sense" in this DIY hobby, it comes down to whatever you enjoy doing and what you can afford.
Gary
Yups, that's what I meant with "low frequency errors", too close to a cheap microphone and no time for a 2nd take...
Well, You have a point there and I was wondering the same for a while. I bought the Genalex tubes for $100 and the RCA's for $40 specially for this amp. But in the end, it is just the hobby. I would have rolled tubes with more expensive amps as well. For the rest I have a closet full of parts and wires to play with which is gathered over the years. Hobbies are not supposed to make sense
My girlfriend does not understand why I have 5 power amplifiers and three sets of speakers and why I swap them every now and then.The PCB quality is quite good I found, I have received much worse PCBs in group buys in this forum make in europe. It is just lacking heat isolation to the ground plane which has the disadvantage that you have to heat the parts more than you want.
Thorsten, I see no point in you insulting this amp. The PCB used in this amp, as well as the soldering, was as good as any PCB based amp I have seen. For the original price plus $20 or $30 I have a small, quality amp that sounds very good. For the most part, getting one of these cheap amps and modding it to my liking is just as interesting as any other amp I've made, just in a different way. Also, the components used are actually of a very decent quality. Without seeing or hearing the amp yourself, it seems unfair for you to attack it in the way you have.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.