Not at all. I'm just trying to find out why he did not recommend the product. People condemn all kinds of things because of what I consider secondary considerations.
I was citing that as an example of Fremer's unreliability and Stereophile's irresponsibility in giving him a platform, not Atkinson's shuffle- note that Atkinson didn't do the measurements.
Is it beside the point? If you have designers who actually believe in parameters that they can't measure and are being possibly misguided by their intuition then I would think that certain mid-fi which doesn't concern itself with superfluous improvements which only bring the overall cost of the product up and give no audible benefits will be a much higher measurable and perceivable fidelity because they focus their money and energy where it actually matters.
Well, if it oscillates, that seems good reason not to recommend it....
Note that it still can sound good in the perception of some, since the very steep price will undoubtedly figure prominently in the brain's development of that perception. ;-)
jd
The "further" establishes the context. In this case, something which measures badly but gets a rave subjective review.
My post gave nothing more than an example of something which measured badly but got a rave subjective review.
Therefore, I fail to see why something more than that was read into it.
se
I agree. The so called mid fi gear is where the gold is if you are after good sound at at a non inflated price. The debate going on now about Stereophile just shows what a mess you get into when un-controlled subjectivism is left to run its course, I believe it will self destruct soon and we will swing back to a more realistic view of how to choose home audio. I live in hope.
Hmm who knows what the cause is. But I think it's just as possible to mislead yourself with measurements that don't matter much chasing arbitrary benchmarks.
Nice, now a few poor examples are used to describe the whole hi-end market. 🙄
Time to wake up, trust your ears, listen and learn what is possible with a good system, you may just be surprised.
Probably just not enough distortion for your tastes, nothing wrong with that.
Andre, these 'critics' apparently have never heard hi end stuff that really works. Of course, sometimes it doesn't, but the successes are also numerous.
For example, I remember hearing that first Wavac power amp that measured so poorly.
I happened into it at THE SHOW on a solitary walk to cover the listening rooms. It was huge, expensive, using horn loaded speakers and a vinyl record playback.
I was stunned, and listened for a long time.
The next year, and even this year, they only used digital playback and a different amp. I was disappointed, on both occasions. Not bad, but no magic. Certainly not worth the cost, (to me). Sometimes it would appear that measurements do not tell us exactly what the unit will sound like.
For example, I remember hearing that first Wavac power amp that measured so poorly.
I happened into it at THE SHOW on a solitary walk to cover the listening rooms. It was huge, expensive, using horn loaded speakers and a vinyl record playback.
I was stunned, and listened for a long time.
The next year, and even this year, they only used digital playback and a different amp. I was disappointed, on both occasions. Not bad, but no magic. Certainly not worth the cost, (to me). Sometimes it would appear that measurements do not tell us exactly what the unit will sound like.
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I believe it is possible to get caught up in chasing ultra low distortion figures and manage to murder the music along the way. To me a good sounding system will also measure good but the reverse isn't always true.
I remember reading that tripe... wondering why they didn't simply state they were hoodwinked and can't imagine why anyone would p*&^ away $25K on such obvious junk...
Stereopile... gotta love their integrity... I recall a few yrs or so ago getting into a discussion with JA on RAHE where he was using near field speaker measurements to justify far field observations and accolades... never did get an accurate response from him...
Stereophile again! - rec.audio.high-end | Google Groups
I just think you apparently haven't heard how good entry level products sound. Welcome to the 21st century....things aren't like they used to be.
It is a start.
I think you would be more surprised than I when you trust your ears in a DBT. You do trust your ears ? 😀
Unfortunately I must say I have heard only a few systems that sounded scaringly real, but to experience that, makes all the effort worthwhile.
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