Hey all,
My Frugel-horns made music today for the first time. I'm using 108 Sigmas. I first AB tested one speaker with my X-baffle. After about 30 seconds, I said enough. The X-baffles are no more. I then put both drivers in and set them up. Most impressive. I don't have the supra baffles built yet or the final layer of oak, and I need to do quite a bit of tweaking still before I glue on the side panels, but I just couldn't wait to put some sound through them.
Everything you've read about these speakers is true. They are very fine sounding. Kudo's to everyone involved in their design. My wife even likes them.
I built the wedgie version and it went fairly smoothly, but I found at least two and perhaps three different measurments for Part A in the plans, so I hope I got the right one. There were some other discrepancies in the overall dimensions given as well. In the end, when I put everything together, I was 1.5 mm too narrow at the upper end of Part F on both cabinets, so it's possible I used the wrong length for Part A. I double checked all my spacers and they were right on, so I suspect one of the parts is off.
In the end, though, it was well worth it. I'll add some more bracing inside and try some different treatments and hack together a supra baffle later this week. I am also toying with the idea of building a B&W-type rounded supra baffle, which I think would look really cool. I'll post some pictures when they are done.
Is it possible to have the horn facing forward on this design? Would it make any difference?
One more question, if I do go with a B&W-type rounded supra baffle, would I still use a diameter of 11 to 12 inches, like the beveled version?
Doug
My Frugel-horns made music today for the first time. I'm using 108 Sigmas. I first AB tested one speaker with my X-baffle. After about 30 seconds, I said enough. The X-baffles are no more. I then put both drivers in and set them up. Most impressive. I don't have the supra baffles built yet or the final layer of oak, and I need to do quite a bit of tweaking still before I glue on the side panels, but I just couldn't wait to put some sound through them.
Everything you've read about these speakers is true. They are very fine sounding. Kudo's to everyone involved in their design. My wife even likes them.
I built the wedgie version and it went fairly smoothly, but I found at least two and perhaps three different measurments for Part A in the plans, so I hope I got the right one. There were some other discrepancies in the overall dimensions given as well. In the end, when I put everything together, I was 1.5 mm too narrow at the upper end of Part F on both cabinets, so it's possible I used the wrong length for Part A. I double checked all my spacers and they were right on, so I suspect one of the parts is off.
In the end, though, it was well worth it. I'll add some more bracing inside and try some different treatments and hack together a supra baffle later this week. I am also toying with the idea of building a B&W-type rounded supra baffle, which I think would look really cool. I'll post some pictures when they are done.
Is it possible to have the horn facing forward on this design? Would it make any difference?
One more question, if I do go with a B&W-type rounded supra baffle, would I still use a diameter of 11 to 12 inches, like the beveled version?
Doug
planet10 said:
email me directly and lets see if we can get any errors corrected and things commented a bit better if necessary.
dave
PS: we expect pictures
Thanks, I'll get something to you in a day or two. It's an exellent-sounding design. I really like it.
Pictures you will get, I promise.
johninCR said:
Now that's an idea I hadn't thought of. Another idea I had is to use a wire framework (chicken wire?) for the shape and filling that space with expanding foam and then forming a shell of Bondo over that and finishing with lacquer. That way, I could make any shape I wanted (a messy process, though). It's just a wave guide, so I don't think it would resonate much (or would it?). I'll probably just use laminated MDF and do it the hard way with grinders and rasps, if I do try it. Whichever way, the difficulty for me is integrating a roundish object with a square one.
Doug
Taperwood said:
Doug,
If you just add to the sides instead of a whole unit on the front, then it's integrating the flat surface with a curve and much easier. Three layers of MDF with the edges cut at angles first will probably prove easier to get a good rounding. I'd rip a piece of PVC in half and line it with foam before trying to manufacture one out of foam and resin. The only difficulty would be the corner joints. PVC pinches closed when you rip it, so I stuff it with a wedge or some foam rubber to prevent dangerous kicks because it likes to shatter too.
I'd just use fence posts and rip them in half, but they aren't available here. For barb wire fence they use a fast growing stalky plant like a Yucca, and string the wire to them.
You can very easily shape the hard blue or pink insulation foam that can be found at Home Depot, Lowes, etc...I have used it to make very complex shapes for bicycle frames in the past. You shape it with sandpaper, rasps, etc and then it can be covered with fiberglass or carbon fiber with epoxy resin to make it hard.
johninCR said:
John, I should have elaborated more. I would feel less nervous if I built the baffle away from the cabinet. I'm using some very fine quartersawn oak, some of the finest I have ever seen. The problem is that it is on 1/8 ply, so it has to be on the cabinet before I fit the baffle, and I don't want any tools near this veneer once it is in place. I can easily fit a square baffle, but a sphere, I don't know. That would be tough. Actually, the square one doesn't look that bad; see below.
dj_oatmeal said:
I agree. In fact just this morning I built a square tapered baffle out of blue foam and covered it with tape to see how it sounds. Took me about a half hour. There is a dramatic difference in the sound. Vocals are richer and fuller, and the speaker disappears even more. So it's clear a supra baffle is needed.
Doug
I plan to make a full range reference box first then a wooden Frugel Horn. After that the thought has more than crossed my mind to make a layertone type box using foam and what is called "hot wire" cutting to cut the internal profile and then carbon over the inside. Basically to hot wire cut you need a template for both sides of your block of foam to use as a guide. You then run the hot wire around the template and that cuts the foam like butter. A quick search yielded this http://www.hhhh.org/~joeboy/resources/hotwire_foam_cutter/hotwire_foam_cutter.html which gives good idea of how much detail is possible with how wire cutting. Call it the poor mans CNC system.
Hey all, relative noob here.
I'm planning to make myself a pair of Frugel-Horn's, v1.2a (might add baffles later), and I figured I'd whip 'em up in google sketchup.
- CC is the small variety, tuned roughly for the Fostex FE126E.
- I made cutouts of the cavities, some people prefer to keep them solid, but WAF dictates it's purty, and I concur.
- Measurements are as exact as I could make them in inches.
would love feedback, or tweaks!
(posted as Zip due to file format restrictions.)
I'm planning to make myself a pair of Frugel-Horn's, v1.2a (might add baffles later), and I figured I'd whip 'em up in google sketchup.
- CC is the small variety, tuned roughly for the Fostex FE126E.
- I made cutouts of the cavities, some people prefer to keep them solid, but WAF dictates it's purty, and I concur.
- Measurements are as exact as I could make them in inches.
would love feedback, or tweaks!
(posted as Zip due to file format restrictions.)
Here's some screenshots from it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Ach, i wish I'd known there already was one!
Would've saved me a good 4 hours of... well it was fun anyway.
Dave, you should throw a link to that on the Frugel-horn page to save people like me the wasted effort. *grin*
Love the design, I have a pair of fe126e's on their way to me!
I would've ordered a set of modded ones from you, but I'm trying to keep this a truly frugal Frugel, as it enhances the WAF of the project.
Would've saved me a good 4 hours of... well it was fun anyway.
Dave, you should throw a link to that on the Frugel-horn page to save people like me the wasted effort. *grin*
Love the design, I have a pair of fe126e's on their way to me!
I would've ordered a set of modded ones from you, but I'm trying to keep this a truly frugal Frugel, as it enhances the WAF of the project.
klocwerk said:
I will at least put a note... i'd have thought that the "style" of SketchUps xRay render would make it clear SketchUp models exist.
If it took 4 hrs to the Frugel-Horns then you needed the practise anyway. I start from the CAD drawings, but the pdfs should work too, and i can get a FH done in less than a 1/2 hr. Some of the Spawns take even less (including the basic CAD work)
dave
planet10 said:
Oh, without a doubt.
I tried to build it wireframe then breakout panels, rather than create each panel as a component and assemble.
Really dumb in retrospect.
Anyway, I'm totally psyched to get going on this. My basement's finally warmed up enough that I don't get frostbite while working.
(I can't seem to edit my posts, is it because I'm still a moderated user on diyaudio? Been a member, but still a lurker for a nearly a year. heh.)
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