Mass isn't connected with distortion, mass is a linear property. Also, mass does not determine how good treble sounds.
Another thing to factor in if you haven't considered it is that once the amount is above $1000 on an import you get charged GST and Customs taxes by the couriers before it gets delivered to you in Australia.
I forgot this when I ordered a Purifi Amp board and it ended up costing me about 20% more than I had first thought. Purifi's shipping is also quite expensive in general to Australia.
Just an FYI if you haven't already considered this
I have, I have, I have!
Basically, let's not kid around, Russell Storey designed this tweeter, so it is as much Australian than Danish. And oh, I am indeed Danish with a passport to prove it. It's just that I have lived the majority of my life in Australia.
I spoke to somebody about an hour ago who might chip in and the odds may have improved.
When the itch getcha, then you have to find a way to scratch it? In truth, it will not replace the Mk6 and time will tell if the extra dosh is worth it.
I have designed a smaller speaker system that uses the SB29RDAC-C000-4 ring tweeter, quite inexpensive and excellent indeed, a bargain. There is a more expensive Sartori version SATORI TW29RN-B-8, which is 8 Ohm and still above 90dB sensitivity. Nice. BUT, the outside area of the 29mm voice coil gets in the way and hence a proper waveguide can't really be used. The Storey tweeter has a beveled area just on the outside of the fold and voice coil diameter, so that you can get the throat of the waveguide right in close and get the sweet spot. Haven't seen another tweeter like it.
There are two versions, the long-throw (19mm) which has too low sensitivity, and other things not working out. Then they brought out a more standard linear throw (12mm) with good 88dB sensitivity. They have announced still one more 'new' version, but that looks more like being excellent for a midrange in a 3-Way etc. and this one is very high at 91dB. But it is the middle one we want to use and it should work at a slightly higher tuning frequency.
Absolutely! Newton's 2nd law comes into it. I think it's crazy what Brian in NZ does with electrostatics. Not me! Bruno Putzey I think has said something on the Purifi website, that acceleration has nothing to do with mass, but it has to do with bandwidth. Some may not intuitively get that, they think low mass equals faster acceleration - maybe because that seems to apply to cars? But it works differently here. Have you noted that the perimeter of the Purifi drivers are mass loaded? This makes the entire cone near 20g and that is pretty heavy for that size driver. So why that perimeter mass? To control the bandwidth (it is not on their website, but this was obvious when I saw the driver).
Slower acceleration means you get to a frequency where the acceleration cannot be maintained, so it rolls off. Below that, acceleration is not a problem and if acceleration is flat, then so is frequency response. But you probably know that.
What is interesting about that ring of mass-loading, it will decrease the surface area of the cone with increasing frequency, particularly above 1KHz. It should also improve off-axis response (and roll off in a more controlled way), but I haven't seen Purifi publish those. Maybe I will be the first one to do that after measuring them?
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Erin's Audio Corner and HifiCompass have limited off axis plots of the first Purifi 6.5" driver.What is interesting about that ring of mass-loading, it will decrease the surface area of the cone with increasing frequency, particularly above 1KHz. It should also improve off-axis response (and roll off in a more controlled way), but I haven't seen Purifi publish those. Maybe I will be the first one to do that after measuring them?
One can read about the actual (MK6 ?) Elsinore :
" HAS BEEN COMPARED COMMERCIAL SPEAKERS COSTING UP TO $82,000"
" NO COMMERCIAL LOUDSPEAKER MEASURES LIKE THIS "
So, what important sound improvement will justify spending 2000$ more on drivers ?
Till now, i too think that the appealing aspect of the Elsinore's is it's performance/price and relative affordability.
I can't help thinking that having height times the same expensive driver is kinda waste for a home speaker kit ...unless this leads to a (new) miracle.
Whatever, thanks again to master Joe for sharing.
Ed
" HAS BEEN COMPARED COMMERCIAL SPEAKERS COSTING UP TO $82,000"
" NO COMMERCIAL LOUDSPEAKER MEASURES LIKE THIS "
So, what important sound improvement will justify spending 2000$ more on drivers ?
Till now, i too think that the appealing aspect of the Elsinore's is it's performance/price and relative affordability.
I can't help thinking that having height times the same expensive driver is kinda waste for a home speaker kit ...unless this leads to a (new) miracle.
Whatever, thanks again to master Joe for sharing.
Ed
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I stand corrected.
This is not the exact same driver, this looks like the earliest version, the long throw. But it should look similar. I like what I am seeing!
Look how close 0-30 degrees, how consistent. That I think would largely be due to that perimeter mass ring.
Now you are the one that has me excited!
Thanks Ed. Good point. Below is the actual Elsinore (one of a pair of course) where the owner sold his Raidho "Made In Denmark" speakers worth AUD $82.000 dollar retail, they sell in the USA for USD $50.000 - and I recall that Joel Wesseling told me that they had been compared to even more expensive speakers.
But I do think that it now has become impossible to back down. One reason is a phone call I got this afternoon. So it looks like we have to find out.
I am going to send an email to Purifi. It looks like that we may order 8 x 2 pairs = 16 drivers. One set for me and the other for an Aussie who will make himself known.
In the email, can I get a hands up and tell them what kind of number in the near to medium future, that they get an idea of the interest. I would love them to take an active interest in the development of "Purified Elsinores" and let's be honest we do live in a numbers world.
Hand up those interested in putting together pairs/sets (8). We can arrange something from Purifi and we all order from them rather than any middleman.
I won't send the email until then. Remember that you will be dealing with them directly. They will know that they are for "Purified Elsinores" when you order in a lot of eight.
What will be the difference in box design?
It will be minimal, below shows the changes.
Driver Outside Diameter: 174mm -> 178mm
Recess: 7mm -> 5mm
Actual Inside Hole: 146mm -> same
So the inner hole is the same, the outer diameter is fractionally larger and the recess is smaller.
The port is yet to be determined, but it may be a bit shorter.
Cheers, Joe
In the email, can I get a hands up and tell them what kind of number in the near to medium future, that they get an idea of the interest. I would love them to take an active interest in the development of "Purified Elsinores" and let's be honest we do live in a numbers world.
Hand up those interested in putting together pairs/sets (8). We can arrange something from Purifi and we all order from them rather than any middleman.
I won't send the email until then. Remember that you will be dealing with them directly. They will know that they are for "Purified Elsinores" when you order in a lot of eight.
What will be the difference in box design?
It will be minimal, below shows the changes.
Driver Outside Diameter: 174mm -> 178mm
Recess: 7mm -> 5mm
Actual Inside Hole: 146mm -> same
So the inner hole is the same, the outer diameter is fractionally larger and the recess is smaller.
The port is yet to be determined, but it may be a bit shorter.
Cheers, Joe
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Here is another look at the long throw driver as used in this design
ASR Directiva Open Source Speaker Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
This is Klippel Nearfield Scanner measurement of the driver in the enclosure shown with the passive radiator.
The DI kink is from the 150 degree off axis (and other angles) measurement which I have highlighted here
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Nice stuff. The Klippel Scanner etc is awesome (and I normally avoid using that word).
My humble ClioFW01 will have to do, it has been an industry standard for a long time.
Below is the photo of the Elsinore that replaced that Raidho speakers, near the end of it being made by a real artist, some kind of South African hardwood.
PS: I would not mind if the system resized the images, I can see a problem above.
PPS: I see some kind of baffle step response in the above Klippel measurements?
Not here:
Standard IEC Baffle? Or equivalent? In a video, it seems they have their own software.
My humble ClioFW01 will have to do, it has been an industry standard for a long time.
Below is the photo of the Elsinore that replaced that Raidho speakers, near the end of it being made by a real artist, some kind of South African hardwood.
PS: I would not mind if the system resized the images, I can see a problem above.
PPS: I see some kind of baffle step response in the above Klippel measurements?
Not here:
Standard IEC Baffle? Or equivalent? In a video, it seems they have their own software.
Attachments
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Hello Joe,
I am in with a purified Elsinor, next year I am going to build a second pair of Elsinores, confessing, that I am totally flashed by the sound of my first pair. I plan to use delignit Panzersperrholz, so they are going to be dead silent. This speakers are a verry sensibel tool, lifting them by another 2.5cm changed again the sound to the better side.
I guess, this speakers are worth the high priced woofers. May be my view is not typical, I bought a pair of Cube audio Magus and now I am going to sell them, so I will have money left over.
cheers,
Helmut
I am in with a purified Elsinor, next year I am going to build a second pair of Elsinores, confessing, that I am totally flashed by the sound of my first pair. I plan to use delignit Panzersperrholz, so they are going to be dead silent. This speakers are a verry sensibel tool, lifting them by another 2.5cm changed again the sound to the better side.
I guess, this speakers are worth the high priced woofers. May be my view is not typical, I bought a pair of Cube audio Magus and now I am going to sell them, so I will have money left over.
cheers,
Helmut
That stuff costs a fortune, a quick search suggested €700/sqm. Can panzerholz be obtained more cheaply, and can you even use ordinary saw blades and router bits?
I am interested but I am based in the uk so not sure if this works for a group buy?
I was about to start cutting my plywood, I better leave the routing for later then, the moisture content is still a bit high anyway (up to 15% in some places - that is too high for plywood right?)
As mentioned, you will be buying straight from Purifi. The idea at this stage it to give them some indication of interest and that when they get orders 8 at a time, they will know what it is for. If they offer us an eight price and not up to six as it is on their website, they might just give us a bit more off. Keep in mind, they build these things to order and two-week lead time is quoted.
TBH, never heard of it before, had to Google it, some kind of plywwod?
OKedoke, you were already on my list.
Hi Helmut. Sounds like a sensible plan to me.
Cheers, Joe
Panzerholz is a brand of Delignit, difficult to optain outside of Germany. But there are similar products, priced at about 20 %. This discussion occured in another thread.
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I don't know how to buy this despite I am not far away from Poland. But it was written if you order tody you will receive the wood about mid 2022.
I am lucky, my step sohn works in a wood shop. Its not cheaper but accessible. But not yet, actually it's very difficult even to buy piping for the reflex tube
Strona nie została znaleziona - PAGED Składy
I don't know how to buy this despite I am not far away from Poland. But it was written if you order tody you will receive the wood about mid 2022.
I am lucky, my step sohn works in a wood shop. Its not cheaper but accessible. But not yet, actually it's very difficult even to buy piping for the reflex tube
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