Joe,
Thanks for chiming in with your thoughts.
You are welcome, trust me on this, the driver we have now is actually a fantastic driver in its own right. When used with that externally added inductance trick, it is able to hold its own in very exalted company.
PS/Edit: The Elsinores are actually a very low distortion speaker.
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Joe,
As you know I was interested in using your wave guide in another design.
Now it’s a little bit on its way. I decided to name it Bragi (with some help from Neil B) and started this thread. Two way, two driver mass loaded transmission line with a coupling chamber. Tweeter: Scan-Speak D2608/913000+ the Elsinore wave guide. Midbass Scan-Speak D8531G00-8, or SB Acoustic SB17MFC35-8 (same as in the Elsinore's). The two midbass drivers are different in size but also in T/S parameters so they fit quite well in the same cabinet. The cabinet could be adapted a little bit for the SB17 but most of the adaption could be done with just filling.
Hopefully this will bring some interest to people and some wave guides sold.
Please confine comments like this to the appropriate part of the forum. Joe has a link in his signature to the thread for those that want to buy. Multi-Way is for other aspects, such as building and designing. (Note 5 and Note 6, diyAudio Rules)Hopefully this will bring some interest to people and some wave guides sold.
AllenB,
Sure will.
Maybe I broke some rules. Sorry if I did so. But Joe said he wanted to be informed in this thread. Just as I wanted some “advertising”. For me it’s more important that other people decide to use the combination, measure it and comment on it. That will help me forward with the Bragi design that is the one I linked to.
Sure will.
Maybe I broke some rules. Sorry if I did so. But Joe said he wanted to be informed in this thread. Just as I wanted some “advertising”. For me it’s more important that other people decide to use the combination, measure it and comment on it. That will help me forward with the Bragi design that is the one I linked to.
SB Acoustic SB26ADC-C000-4 in Elsinore WG
Before I order it and start to investigate.
Don´t really know where to ask, so it might be slightly off topic.
Has anyone here any experience with the SB26ADC tweeter, and if so, with the Elsinore Waveguide?
I know there has been deep investigations regarding drivers in the Elsinore project by Joe (and possibly others), including a detailed comparison paper between the current HDS tweeter and another (but not this one). The D2608 is highly appreciated, and so is the SB26ADC. Both 1", low distorition, SB with a better off axis response, more flat spl but not so flat impedance. Quite different T/S but both seem to work with quite simple xo´s.
Before I order it and start to investigate.
Don´t really know where to ask, so it might be slightly off topic.
Has anyone here any experience with the SB26ADC tweeter, and if so, with the Elsinore Waveguide?
I know there has been deep investigations regarding drivers in the Elsinore project by Joe (and possibly others), including a detailed comparison paper between the current HDS tweeter and another (but not this one). The D2608 is highly appreciated, and so is the SB26ADC. Both 1", low distorition, SB with a better off axis response, more flat spl but not so flat impedance. Quite different T/S but both seem to work with quite simple xo´s.
UPDATE:
Waveguides have arrived
Re comparing different drivers:
In looking around, and I have been looking around and the above is just a few samples, there are not many drivers suitable for the Elsinores. The best alternative is the SB MW16P-8 Sartori, but... it does not mean you can simply swap out and hope it will work. The front panel needs to be different, it needs to be fully computer modeled and adjustments made to the crossover. I am confident that it will work, but not sure if there will be a great improvement. The sound will be very much in the same vein.
As for the tweeter, I have found no alternative that will work in the Elsinores the way the SS D2608/913000 (also know as the Peerless HDS) at any price.
I am not sure if the waveguide can even be used, are they physically compatible? That phase plate looks problematic. But it is 4 Ohm and its output is low when it should be much higher. There are times when a 4 Ohm tweeter can be used as 8 Ohm, but only when it has high sensitivity. This tweeter does not.
I am definitely going to design a 2-Way in the future. I will be using the current tweeter and waveguide combination. The SB MW19P-8 looks to be an awesome partner. When it came out I visited SB in Herning, Denmark, and I spoke to designer Ulrik Schmidt and showed me one of the first samples. This was October or November 2017. I got the impression from him that he considered this as maybe his masterpiece. Looking at the bass tuning, it also looks to be capable of serious low-frequency extension.
To sum up, this is what I would do, use the current tweeter and waveguide combo and either MW19P-8 or the white version MW19PNW-8.
I highly recommend you do that combination.
White:
Black:
Cheers, Joe
Waveguides have arrived
Re comparing different drivers:
In looking around, and I have been looking around and the above is just a few samples, there are not many drivers suitable for the Elsinores. The best alternative is the SB MW16P-8 Sartori, but... it does not mean you can simply swap out and hope it will work. The front panel needs to be different, it needs to be fully computer modeled and adjustments made to the crossover. I am confident that it will work, but not sure if there will be a great improvement. The sound will be very much in the same vein.
As for the tweeter, I have found no alternative that will work in the Elsinores the way the SS D2608/913000 (also know as the Peerless HDS) at any price.
I am not sure if the waveguide can even be used, are they physically compatible? That phase plate looks problematic. But it is 4 Ohm and its output is low when it should be much higher. There are times when a 4 Ohm tweeter can be used as 8 Ohm, but only when it has high sensitivity. This tweeter does not.
I am definitely going to design a 2-Way in the future. I will be using the current tweeter and waveguide combination. The SB MW19P-8 looks to be an awesome partner. When it came out I visited SB in Herning, Denmark, and I spoke to designer Ulrik Schmidt and showed me one of the first samples. This was October or November 2017. I got the impression from him that he considered this as maybe his masterpiece. Looking at the bass tuning, it also looks to be capable of serious low-frequency extension.
To sum up, this is what I would do, use the current tweeter and waveguide combo and either MW19P-8 or the white version MW19PNW-8.
I highly recommend you do that combination.
White:
Black:
Cheers, Joe
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Hi Joe,
Thanks for the informative post.
As this 2-way will be a 2 driver setup in a MLTL maybe the 4 ohm and lower sensity isn´t a problem. But as I really like the D2608+WG the only reason to switch was to get a pure SB speaker. In a 2-way the tweeter need to be xo:d lower than in a 2,5/3 way. Will be intersting to se how low the D2608+WG will work.
For the midbass I have experiemented with a lot of drivers, including this MWP19. Very few does work well in a MLTL (or TL, or TTL) and the MWP 19 is not one of them. The SB17MFC35 works extremely well. The only really option to it is, and even a better option, is SS D8531G00. So maybe the first practical try will be D2608+WG and SB17MFC. A minimum driver number version of what is used in both the Elsinore and the Hamlet. Inetersting.
Thanks for the informative post.
As this 2-way will be a 2 driver setup in a MLTL maybe the 4 ohm and lower sensity isn´t a problem. But as I really like the D2608+WG the only reason to switch was to get a pure SB speaker. In a 2-way the tweeter need to be xo:d lower than in a 2,5/3 way. Will be intersting to se how low the D2608+WG will work.
For the midbass I have experiemented with a lot of drivers, including this MWP19. Very few does work well in a MLTL (or TL, or TTL) and the MWP 19 is not one of them. The SB17MFC35 works extremely well. The only really option to it is, and even a better option, is SS D8531G00. So maybe the first practical try will be D2608+WG and SB17MFC. A minimum driver number version of what is used in both the Elsinore and the Hamlet. Inetersting.
Sourcing Bolserst mod components...
Going to give the Bolserst mod a try... Been on the fence for some time, but now just noticed someone said it might help sound from a tube amp.
Im having trouble deciding what I should be picking when sourcing from digi-key, Im hunting down the 0.47mH inductor but after narrowing down am unsure of the most desirable specs...
And while at it would anyone care to also point out the 3.3uF cap, I'm sure I will stumble on that too...
Thanks in advance!
Going to give the Bolserst mod a try... Been on the fence for some time, but now just noticed someone said it might help sound from a tube amp.
Im having trouble deciding what I should be picking when sourcing from digi-key, Im hunting down the 0.47mH inductor but after narrowing down am unsure of the most desirable specs...
And while at it would anyone care to also point out the 3.3uF cap, I'm sure I will stumble on that too...
Thanks in advance!
Joe, Im hurt.. You dont remember my wave guide order from you a little more than a year ago ? And to think, I even framed the label on the box they came in..
But seriously, I have mine up for a little over a year...
Which amp from tube will be better for elsinore - I am choosing from new this https://www.hifi-amplifiers.com/ru/...8-integrated-vacuum-tube-amplifier-p-868.html but also can buy used like this yaqin ms-650b on 845 lamp - have no opportunity to listen so will be thankfull for advise
Put it down to part foot-in-mind decease and brain fade.
Haven’t heard of Hifi Amplifiers but the price looks very fishy since Line Magnetic amplifiers are usually around double the price listed on the website. If that’s the actual price then I might be interested as well as I believe Joe recommended an LM216 in this thread.
I upgrade the LM211 which is essentially the same as LM216, even the transformers are the same. I actually bought one LM216/KT88 and converted it to LM211/EL34 effectively. They are the same, but the LM211 is cheaper, comes with decent EL34 fitted, so buy that one.
Below is the LM216 that was converted to EL34:
We don't use the JJ tubes shown in the pic. They were unreliable. But the EL34 that comes with LM211 has proved reliable.
BTW, in this tube circuit, the output tubes run close to "Unity Gain" (1.5x), so tube rolling has little effect on the sound. Basically, the linearity of the output stage and output transformer has the linearity controlled by two resistors in real-time. It is a pretty unique arrangement and perfect for the Elsinores because they were the ones used when developing the amp. Match made in heaven? No, but a match made for each other.
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LM - JLTI - MK3/MK6 Bolserst Mod
So Joe... Any updates on the JLTI here in the states ???
The LM is high on my list, but yours is higher.. Problem is I can only buy 1.. (this year) ... And, to remind you I have been tapping my foot for almost a year...
My wallet is lucky none of the models at that site show 120V @ 60Hz..
Anyway, the Bolserst mod... I now see there were enough changes in the 2012 crossover to the MK6 that I cannot determine any parts list...
Keep designing the good stuff, I'm sure I will get over itPut it down to part foot-in-mind decease and brain fade.
So Joe... Any updates on the JLTI here in the states ???
The LM is high on my list, but yours is higher.. Problem is I can only buy 1.. (this year
) ... And, to remind you I have been tapping my foot for almost a year... My wallet is lucky none of the models at that site show 120V @ 60Hz..
Anyway, the Bolserst mod... I now see there were enough changes in the 2012 crossover to the MK6 that I cannot determine any parts list...