The "W-18" on "original Lii" shop seems to be merely "F-18" with a different phase cone so maybe the seller thought it's OK because you have received right things but just with a different phase cone.
Whereas the "fake Lii" offers W-18 that's without doubt a woofer and following consistent design language as other W series they are offering.
Also I went to Taobao to take a look, both are selling their products openly on Taobao, and here-below is sales number of "original Lii", or Xizi Morning Glory's F-6, note that they sell drivers by unit so for pairs they've only sold 11 so far:
While the "Fake Lii" is offering F-6, exactly the same model as most, if not all reviews of F-6 we can see online, more than doubled price of the "orignal" but still sells better.
So my question is, if all those stories told by the "original" is true, how is it possible that even within their domestic market, where there are no communication barriers for them, they sell worse than an opponent who is "faking and copying" their products and selling at a much higher price?
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I have no idea which taobao you are using, both shops, prices and quantity are wrong when i check on app.
These drivers are also different, you can check the mounting screws quantity on both.
This is the closest driver from Xizi currently for sale with 4 screws. The liisong F6 look like the F6 from Xizi a long time ago.
PS I tried to explain things a little but if people swear and prefer liisong go for it...i spend too much time already.
These drivers are also different, you can check the mounting screws quantity on both.
This is the closest driver from Xizi currently for sale with 4 screws. The liisong F6 look like the F6 from Xizi a long time ago.
PS I tried to explain things a little but if people swear and prefer liisong go for it...i spend too much time already.
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Yes indeed, that's what I realized, but it seems that there's more to it than just the cone or phase plug since the price was quite different. But the shape of the frame casing is close to identical. On the other hand, the LiiSong W18 is clearly different. Priced differently too, as you have noticed on other drivers...
That I don't know about their sales numbers and if they reflect anything, I'm not able to investigate their local market volume.
Again, no idea. I have been taking the side of the "original" maker since I'm an entrepreneur and I don't like when people copy one design without even trying to make a name for themselves, but buying from this "official vendor" on Taobao isn't the most pleasant experience. I'm left with two damaged F18 (from factory or from shipping) and zero news from the vendor... Live and learn.
On a side note I've been commenting on Jay video on youtube about this new Canadien speaker maker that uses LiiSong drivers about the origin of the design and the confusion with LiiAudio and my comment was deleted.
As long as there's money to be made and you challenge "someone's livelihood" in a tangible way, what you say will get deleted. Business favor from one to another.
I am also an entrepreneur and don't like to see pirated designs of others, but that's the reason why I sided with Lii Song. Just like I mentioned in my previous replies in this thread, I do see the "original" selling 100% counterfeits of Acoustic Elegance in their "flagship store", constantly changing models and prices, and concocting stories such as Lii Song being created by a "salesman" who was so competent that he "stole" the website, market, sales channels, fan group... and received compliments from respectful audio masters on their products, instead of those that are totally different from the 'original'. If I had a salesman with such great competence, I'd at least make him my partner.
Besides, I also heard answer about the relationship from Lii Song the "fake", they used to be partners and created "Lii Audio" together but they split in 2019 when Xizi, the one claiming himself to be the "original", registered the trademark in US with a sole ownership excluding the others, they regarded this as a backstab, then separated with him and re-branded themselves to Lii Song. If you think this answer is reasonable as I do, I think this can explain many questions like why the "fake" looks more like a serious business while the "original" acts like a pirate.
Anyway, I'd appreciate it if someone could do a comparison of products between the two, but personally, I won't buy from the "original" because I don't see decent business practices at all, not only towards their ex-partners, but also towards customers like what you have been through. While all the good reviews about products and service I can find are linked to Lii Song, which is supposed to be 'fake,' the 'original' seems to just want to create stories that are not convincing at all and take over everything the "fake" has earned.
Wow. Are we confusing vendors with manufacturers? Talk about conflating. Jeez. I'm not cheerleading for anybody, i honestly happen to believe the guy on this forum who has visited the lii audio factory and seen their production facility. Is it not also possible that the guy worked as a salesman and offered to develop the international market and secured the website in his name then went of on his own for what ever reason making speakers with strikingly similar looking logos and style and represented himself as lii audio because he owns the domain name? Seems like a possible scenario. I'm sure the timeline can be proven one way or another. This is just ridiculous. Enjoy your speakers whatever you get. Call out the vendors. Spin on.
Well I don't know which is harder, "steal" the website, market, fan group, sales channels, relationships, technologies, products... technically everything of a business, as a "salesman"; or do an overseas trademark squatting behind your partners who trusted you. I'm not a detective and it will be tireding to dig all truth out from every slightest clue but as far as facts I've seen, one of above is apparently more likely to be the case than the other, at least for me.
Somebody builds these, if not the components, for both parties; I'm sure they dont mind the double-dipping... They probably have labels in stock for both. I "took a chance" on the original F15s, based solely on what I read on line and have been delighted with their sound.
That doesnt always happen, as I've recently learned (again and again) with guitars. Buying something that makes sound, without actually hearing the sound it makes, can be dangerous to the wallet. Imagine buying something and within a minute, you recognize it's not going to sound as you hoped. Yet people take such risks enough to keep both Lii's in business.
Damaged shipment / order non-fulfillment is a whole 'nother matter. Manufacturers being dishonest with each other is probably more common than we'd think, but extending that dishonesty to customers isnt survivable.
This may not help clarify things, but I'll post it anyway. The video below is mostly about the Tekton/Erin's Audio Corner drama. But at 6:00 he also makes mention of Lii Song, whose products he often reviews. He mentions contacting their "HQ in China" thru the Canadian and US distributors. So, it appears that Lii Song at least has some presence in China. But maybe that was never in question?
Well, they are only imposters because they're company was formed after lii audio and lii song happens to look very similar to the much older company and lii song took the domain name. I'm glad your entertained because as stated previously i will never purchase anything from them based on the previous time line and imitation of lii audio. If your gloating because of Maco. I thought they sounded nice. Will never buy it they are affiliated with a company that has their Genesis in what (at least to me) appears suspect at best and deceitful and ethically devoid at worst. I don't know what happened between them, but to imitate the look of the labels and basically have a similar design copied while taking the domain name of the original company and manufacturing under a different name is enough for me to steer clear. I also acknowledge that there are plenty of people who purchased their driver's from lii audio.Com and think that's what they purchased not Knowing their really is a lii audio and what they purchased is lii song. Manny of those people are perfectly happy with the speakers. Mr lii song has done a wonderful job at marketing his line around the world. I'm not mad at the people who bought lii song from lii audio.com. I just can't fathom what the whole story is in regards to this because it just doesn't sit right. My BS meter is flashing at me to steer away from lii song.
No that was never in question. What is in question is why does the company lii song, that formed years after lii audio and looks very similar in design and even colors on the label have no explanation of the imitation of another older companies product. They also secured the lii audio domain website internationally. There is just to many suspect actions. If i tried one of these companies it it would definitely be lii audio. Not only would it give more information on the subjective sound of the driver's, it would also be valuable to get some alnico sonics in my life 😊.
That approach seems similar to the many people who are now refusing to buy from Tektonik because of how its owner treated the Youtuber Erin (just to bring some of the threads of this discussion together
). An approach, I will add, that I find entirely reasonable and understandable.I noticed that the Lii Audio Xisi Fast 15 driver I bought is no longer available on Amazon. Because...? I always wonder why products come and go on Amazon, even from "non-controversial" audio manufacturers. Happens all the time. I see a nice American made tube amp or processor that is offered, then sold out/ not available later. I figure it is usually an "over stock" thing. I bought the Xisi model off of Amazon merely because I could use my Amazon charge card and finance over 6 months. If something happens to it, there will be no shipping back to China, lesson learned. These are considered "budget" drivers, correct?
Then I see the Lii Song Fast 15 is on sale now, hundred bucks off...what could this mean, a new model coming soon? Oh the drama. LOL.
Lets talk technical. My Lii Audio (Xisi) Fast 15s are still working, in a couple of test baffles, the new baffles will also include dual 15" Eminence Beta bass drivers. Plan on trying a 2-1/2 way WAW, or whatever. But the upper treble needs helps also, so the Lii Audio will end up just being a wide band mid range.
The obvious difference between the two brands are the whizzer vs perforated whizzer. I'm assuming the former may have a higher high frequency range? Anyone have any comment about this? I found this one thread regarding perforated whizzers.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/perforated-whizzer-cone.392525/
Then I see the Lii Song Fast 15 is on sale now, hundred bucks off...what could this mean, a new model coming soon? Oh the drama. LOL.
Lets talk technical. My Lii Audio (Xisi) Fast 15s are still working, in a couple of test baffles, the new baffles will also include dual 15" Eminence Beta bass drivers. Plan on trying a 2-1/2 way WAW, or whatever. But the upper treble needs helps also, so the Lii Audio will end up just being a wide band mid range.
The obvious difference between the two brands are the whizzer vs perforated whizzer. I'm assuming the former may have a higher high frequency range? Anyone have any comment about this? I found this one thread regarding perforated whizzers.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/perforated-whizzer-cone.392525/
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"Purported" in the sense of literal accuracy. I have no information on the history between these two businesses beyond your contributions. Until a couple days ago I wasn't even aware Lii Song was a sub-brand of MACO, along with Meze Audio, Mon Acoustic and VIABLUE.
More bemused than gloating. This is becoming the 'Where's Waldo' of audio. One company is China-only, products are unavailable in North America and to date I'm not aware of a single objective or subjective assessment of any speaker. The other is a part of a conglomerate of known companies, with speakers widely assessed positive and negative and literally available in an afternoon's drive. If in the market the choice would be clear.
Regarding a moral stance, these are speakers. My sensibilities are as troubled as choosing between similar electric razors. Or buying from AliExpress. The tribal rustlings around a hissy fit thrown by Tekton's designer are embarrassing and not a little dismaying.
More bemused than gloating. This is becoming the 'Where's Waldo' of audio. One company is China-only, products are unavailable in North America and to date I'm not aware of a single objective or subjective assessment of any speaker. The other is a part of a conglomerate of known companies, with speakers widely assessed positive and negative and literally available in an afternoon's drive. If in the market the choice would be clear.
Regarding a moral stance, these are speakers. My sensibilities are as troubled as choosing between similar electric razors. Or buying from AliExpress. The tribal rustlings around a hissy fit thrown by Tekton's designer are embarrassing and not a little dismaying.
Don't recall who but a YouTube reviewer familiar with the Fast 15 claimed the Macaria 15" appears to be a new version, with similarities to the Fast 18. So maybe.
And that, IMHO, is also reasonable and understandable.
For me, the Lii Song warehouse is only about a 10 minute drive from my home, and I admit that also plays into my purchasing decision. I have a pair of W15's that will be employed as woofers in an open baffle project. My personal moral standards vary with bandwidth, and I figure so long as I keep things below 150Hz, God will be merciful on my soul.
This could just be my faulty memory, but I swear that for a while when you went to the Lii Song USA website, there would be a pop-up that warned against possible counterfeit products being sold under their name and which also mentioned that they were registering their trademarks to prevent this. Does anyone else recall this?
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