If 3 layer bamboo plywood counts as solid hardwood - the answer is definitely yes, a sonic step up from BB: albeit at approx 5 x the per ft^2 cost, and rather a bit more care required during cut-planning to ensure grain matching, etc.
The standard Fonken enclosure has enough layers and internal panels/bracing that construction with solid hardwoods could be problematic in respect of long term movement / expansion/contraction. Some cracked joints might be expected if not kept under well controlled temp / humidity conditions.
The big side bevels are cut in multiple passes on the table saw at 45deg. Use a sacrificial scrap of material to prevent cross-grain chipping at the end of the cut.
I happen to have access to a commercial sliding table saw with 14" main blade and 15HP drive motor - it's still faster going to make a couple of passes per side. Aside from the first prototype pair that was brad-nailed together, I've have good success assembling without any mechanical fasteners. Just cut the parts for the side panels slightly oversize, glue the spacers and inner panels into a sub-assembly, and trim to accurate size after overnight clamp-up, before proceeding to next stage. It gets tight very quickly, and you soon run out of space for clamps.
There's no worrys about hitting a nail or screw you missed backing out, and I have yet to have a pair fall apart.
By "the opening on the back of the baffle", Dave is referring to chamfering the rear side of the driver cut-out with as large a 45deg or quarter-round as you can find that doesn't interfere with pads for T-nuts or threaded insert fitting if used.
The standard Fonken enclosure has enough layers and internal panels/bracing that construction with solid hardwoods could be problematic in respect of long term movement / expansion/contraction. Some cracked joints might be expected if not kept under well controlled temp / humidity conditions.
The big side bevels are cut in multiple passes on the table saw at 45deg. Use a sacrificial scrap of material to prevent cross-grain chipping at the end of the cut.
I happen to have access to a commercial sliding table saw with 14" main blade and 15HP drive motor - it's still faster going to make a couple of passes per side. Aside from the first prototype pair that was brad-nailed together, I've have good success assembling without any mechanical fasteners. Just cut the parts for the side panels slightly oversize, glue the spacers and inner panels into a sub-assembly, and trim to accurate size after overnight clamp-up, before proceeding to next stage. It gets tight very quickly, and you soon run out of space for clamps.
There's no worrys about hitting a nail or screw you missed backing out, and I have yet to have a pair fall apart.
By "the opening on the back of the baffle", Dave is referring to chamfering the rear side of the driver cut-out with as large a 45deg or quarter-round as you can find that doesn't interfere with pads for T-nuts or threaded insert fitting if used.
Good points
Chris makes some good points to consider. He has made a few of these cabinets so his experience is valuable.
When working with hardwoods or any solid woods I learned a valuable lesson on my build. The wood must be at the same humidity as the room you are going to be setting them up in. My wood was in the heated basement and I thought it would be fine. The year after I completed the project and the speakers had been in my living room, I noticed a crack show up in the face of one of the cabinets. The humidity in my house drops quite low during the winter months especially on the main floor. Because the cabinet is very tightly designed there is no room for shrinkage. The wood must move, therefore a crack opened up. It does not effect the sound as the crack is right at the rabbit I put in for the holey brace. It does bug me because I should have thought about it before I built. Now I have to refinish and fill. A bit of a pain. Something to consider when using solid wood. Quarter sawn lumber might be more stable than edge grained. Multiply wood is generaly more stable, it is not he look I am after. If I were to do it again I would likely do the same thing. The risk is worth it as I like the look of real wood.
The driver needs room to breather from the back. I have used a very large chamfer bit on my router to open up the back. Make sure there is enough wood to anchor the driver though.
Chris makes some good points to consider. He has made a few of these cabinets so his experience is valuable.
When working with hardwoods or any solid woods I learned a valuable lesson on my build. The wood must be at the same humidity as the room you are going to be setting them up in. My wood was in the heated basement and I thought it would be fine. The year after I completed the project and the speakers had been in my living room, I noticed a crack show up in the face of one of the cabinets. The humidity in my house drops quite low during the winter months especially on the main floor. Because the cabinet is very tightly designed there is no room for shrinkage. The wood must move, therefore a crack opened up. It does not effect the sound as the crack is right at the rabbit I put in for the holey brace. It does bug me because I should have thought about it before I built. Now I have to refinish and fill. A bit of a pain. Something to consider when using solid wood. Quarter sawn lumber might be more stable than edge grained. Multiply wood is generaly more stable, it is not he look I am after. If I were to do it again I would likely do the same thing. The risk is worth it as I like the look of real wood.
The driver needs room to breather from the back. I have used a very large chamfer bit on my router to open up the back. Make sure there is enough wood to anchor the driver though.
Many thanks Chris,
My table saw is smaller than that, but I can take the multiple passes using the depth stop on the sliding carriage to get the cut right. I left the side panels long for just this reason.
I used a combination of router bits - a big cove bit and then followed that with the chamfer bit. I still have a good bit of meat on there because the baffle is 24mm. In fact my worry is whether I have enough material removed.
I could always mount it up on the lathe and turn out the chamfer more if needs be.
Thanks again for the help,
Fran
My table saw is smaller than that, but I can take the multiple passes using the depth stop on the sliding carriage to get the cut right. I left the side panels long for just this reason.
I used a combination of router bits - a big cove bit and then followed that with the chamfer bit. I still have a good bit of meat on there because the baffle is 24mm. In fact my worry is whether I have enough material removed.
I could always mount it up on the lathe and turn out the chamfer more if needs be.
Thanks again for the help,
Fran
Another pair:
today I got nearly all of a pair of "slim tower with fonken tuning" made up - like the others I just have to wait to cut the brace for the drivers and do the glue up.
A question for you all. I managed to get some of the 1/2" felt for lining the inside - Exactly what should I line inside and is contact adhesive OK for sticking that stuff on? (Like should I line the brace, or just the 4 walls, etc etc
Photos to come soon..
Fran
today I got nearly all of a pair of "slim tower with fonken tuning" made up - like the others I just have to wait to cut the brace for the drivers and do the glue up.
A question for you all. I managed to get some of the 1/2" felt for lining the inside - Exactly what should I line inside and is contact adhesive OK for sticking that stuff on? (Like should I line the brace, or just the 4 walls, etc etc
Photos to come soon..
Fran
Lining
Hello Fran:
You may get a few differing answers to this one. I focused on the concept that the sound was reflecting primarily off the walls. And tried to get as much of that lined as possible. Lining the brace will be a major challenge.
Glad to hear all is working out. May i suggest a bipole design? I made both the regular fonken and a bi-pole fonken. For me and my set up the bi-pole is a very nice design and does the job well.
Good luck
Hello Fran:
You may get a few differing answers to this one. I focused on the concept that the sound was reflecting primarily off the walls. And tried to get as much of that lined as possible. Lining the brace will be a major challenge.
Glad to hear all is working out. May i suggest a bipole design? I made both the regular fonken and a bi-pole fonken. For me and my set up the bi-pole is a very nice design and does the job well.
Good luck
Thanks SCD - thats what I was thinking as well. I think I'll coat the walls/top/bottom and leave the baffle uncoated.
Don't think I'll do the bipole this time out though - thats for the next time!
Pics:
Fran
Don't think I'll do the bipole this time out though - thats for the next time!
Pics:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Fran
Oh my, what a surprise! I got home and there was a strange looking box waiting for me. What could it be I thought? - I wasn't expecting anything
a-gluing we shall go, a-gluing we shall go, hey-ho!
More in the next post....
Fran
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
a-gluing we shall go, a-gluing we shall go, hey-ho!
More in the next post....
Fran
So, I got busy!
First up were the slim towers:
and here's a pic of the filled sandbox (I used shot blast material)
They now weigh 13.3kg each sans driver and feel very solid even though the glue hadn't even set.
Next to the fonkens:
(I fixed the little bits of wadding that are partially occluding the holes in the ports).
So all are inside at the moment, with the glue busily drying away. I have the stands for the fonkens done too and they are drying too.
I'll be disappointed if I don't hear some sounds by tomorrow night.
Don't know really what to expect sound wise. I do hope they will be OK!
Fran
First up were the slim towers:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
and here's a pic of the filled sandbox (I used shot blast material)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
They now weigh 13.3kg each sans driver and feel very solid even though the glue hadn't even set.
Next to the fonkens:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
(I fixed the little bits of wadding that are partially occluding the holes in the ports).
So all are inside at the moment, with the glue busily drying away. I have the stands for the fonkens done too and they are drying too.
I'll be disappointed if I don't hear some sounds by tomorrow night.
Don't know really what to expect sound wise. I do hope they will be OK!
Fran
Its the glue maaaan!!
Time to adopt a zen like attitude and wait! (while busily hopping from one foot to the other like a child in need of a bathroom!)
So it looks OK Chris?
For other european builders: if you are going to used threaded inserts to hold the drivers in, M4 is a nice size and you might get away with M5 but I don't think M6.
Fran
Time to adopt a zen like attitude and wait! (while busily hopping from one foot to the other like a child in need of a bathroom!)
So it looks OK Chris?
For other european builders: if you are going to used threaded inserts to hold the drivers in, M4 is a nice size and you might get away with M5 but I don't think M6.
Fran
SCD ?
Who you say, Well that is me!
I have been away doing the work my employer insists I complete.
Between my employer and SWMBO my audio time has been limited. I hope to be able to get down island to the get together this year.
I do have a nice pair of F4 amps to bring down and through into the mix.. If I get time perhaps a pre-amp as well.
I am not allowed to try any more stone melting experiments, and both Cal and I have been instructed to wear shirts. If I adhere to these rules I think I am still allowed to show up.
Growing up is hard to do
_______________________________________________________________
Now back on topic to Frans project
Fran an note of caution: you have to make a commitment to yourself to keep your test listening session down to just a few days, and stick to it!!
Once you get these into the living room you will not want to let the go back out to the shop, even for a few days. Once your ears get used to the new sound you will start hearing things on you records and discs that you have not heard before and you will want more. Soon you will be well on the way to checking out all your favourite music. Time will pass before you know it, you will be used to the unfinished look, explaining to your wife that it is not that bad and that you kind of like it. The speakers will stay unfinished. Your wife will be frustrated and you will be in audio heaven wondering what they would look like finished.
So take a word of warning, finish them as soon as possible. I think they even sound better when they are fully dressed up. It is a good investment in marital stability.
you
Who you say, Well that is me!
I have been away doing the work my employer insists I complete.
Between my employer and SWMBO my audio time has been limited. I hope to be able to get down island to the get together this year.
I do have a nice pair of F4 amps to bring down and through into the mix.. If I get time perhaps a pre-amp as well.
I am not allowed to try any more stone melting experiments, and both Cal and I have been instructed to wear shirts. If I adhere to these rules I think I am still allowed to show up.
Growing up is hard to do
_______________________________________________________________
Now back on topic to Frans project
Fran an note of caution: you have to make a commitment to yourself to keep your test listening session down to just a few days, and stick to it!!
Once you get these into the living room you will not want to let the go back out to the shop, even for a few days. Once your ears get used to the new sound you will start hearing things on you records and discs that you have not heard before and you will want more. Soon you will be well on the way to checking out all your favourite music. Time will pass before you know it, you will be used to the unfinished look, explaining to your wife that it is not that bad and that you kind of like it. The speakers will stay unfinished. Your wife will be frustrated and you will be in audio heaven wondering what they would look like finished.
So take a word of warning, finish them as soon as possible. I think they even sound better when they are fully dressed up. It is a good investment in marital stability.
you
Re: SCD ?
At least one at time - the combination of all that manly flesh at once is just too distracting - and we do want to encourage more W & GF to attend these events - but only if we can demonstrate our restraint and genteel comportment . Thanks to camera-phones and IM- what happens at Geek-fest no longer stays at geek-fest
As will be confirmed by aforementioned W/G-F and SWMBO (Scott, you're not the only one!) , few of the regulars at these events can claim to have yet completed that journey
SCD said:
At least one at time - the combination of all that manly flesh at once is just too distracting - and we do want to encourage more W & GF to attend these events - but only if we can demonstrate our restraint and genteel comportment . Thanks to camera-phones and IM- what happens at Geek-fest no longer stays at geek-fest
As will be confirmed by aforementioned W/G-F and SWMBO (Scott, you're not the only one!) , few of the regulars at these events can claim to have yet completed that journey
OK,
Its late and I'm tired, so this will be short enough.
I got home a bit early from work and immediately get going to set the drivers into the slim towers. I went to these first because I still had to cut the angles on the front of the fonkens.
So in go the drivers, connect up the speakers and turn on - sound, yes, but it sounded really weird. No way could this be what was raved about. So anyway, I found I had connected one of them out of phase. Corrected that, and yes, the sound improved dramatically. However, I had to ask myself, where was the bass? The mid and treble were OK, but the bass was very poor, lacking seriously any kind of weight. I was fairly disappointed in this. I tried several positions, nearer and further out from walls and so on to no avail. It reminded me of a phonostage I put together once and miscalculated the caps for the RIAA bit - meant I only had a fraction of the bass boost I should have had. The walls are all lined with 1/2" wool layer but I didn't add any filling other than that.
Would anyone have any ideas on what to do here?
So I reckoned I better have a listen to the fonkens. I cut the bevel on the front face, fixed up the wiring and mounted in the drivers. Brought them back inside and fired them up. Now we're talking business!!
Much much better. Much more weight to the bottom end and more solidity to the music too. The mids/treble is all still there but it doesn't sound nearly as bright as the towers. Heres a pic:
My room is reasonably big, and very open (the whole house is) and I would think that in a smaller room the bass might even be boosted another bit. I think the bass would still be lacking a bit compared to the ESL 57s in the pic - but I need to listen more to that. What bass is there is tuneful enough though.
There is a great soundstage - I have no way of measuring it but I think the mids/treble are probably a bit emphasised - which would help the soundstaging a lot. But there was very good depth and width and I'm pretty happy with that.
I know its a single driver and I didn't expect couch rattling bass!
Very interesting how the stand mount fonken has more bass weight than the floorstander. I'm pretty happy with the fonken. If I could boost the bass just a little in the fonken, I would be ecstatic! More would be required for the floorstander.
A friend is calling over tomorrow night to have a listen so I'll post more then.
Fran
Its late and I'm tired, so this will be short enough.
I got home a bit early from work and immediately get going to set the drivers into the slim towers. I went to these first because I still had to cut the angles on the front of the fonkens.
So in go the drivers, connect up the speakers and turn on - sound, yes, but it sounded really weird. No way could this be what was raved about. So anyway, I found I had connected one of them out of phase. Corrected that, and yes, the sound improved dramatically. However, I had to ask myself, where was the bass? The mid and treble were OK, but the bass was very poor, lacking seriously any kind of weight. I was fairly disappointed in this. I tried several positions, nearer and further out from walls and so on to no avail. It reminded me of a phonostage I put together once and miscalculated the caps for the RIAA bit - meant I only had a fraction of the bass boost I should have had. The walls are all lined with 1/2" wool layer but I didn't add any filling other than that.
Would anyone have any ideas on what to do here?
So I reckoned I better have a listen to the fonkens. I cut the bevel on the front face, fixed up the wiring and mounted in the drivers. Brought them back inside and fired them up. Now we're talking business!!
Much much better. Much more weight to the bottom end and more solidity to the music too. The mids/treble is all still there but it doesn't sound nearly as bright as the towers. Heres a pic:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
My room is reasonably big, and very open (the whole house is) and I would think that in a smaller room the bass might even be boosted another bit. I think the bass would still be lacking a bit compared to the ESL 57s in the pic - but I need to listen more to that. What bass is there is tuneful enough though.
There is a great soundstage - I have no way of measuring it but I think the mids/treble are probably a bit emphasised - which would help the soundstaging a lot. But there was very good depth and width and I'm pretty happy with that.
I know its a single driver and I didn't expect couch rattling bass!
Very interesting how the stand mount fonken has more bass weight than the floorstander. I'm pretty happy with the fonken. If I could boost the bass just a little in the fonken, I would be ecstatic! More would be required for the floorstander.
A friend is calling over tomorrow night to have a listen so I'll post more then.
Fran
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