I'm using my L25Ds with the Doug Self 2012 Pre and the sound is very pleasing - at least to me.
The pre gives me some control should I want to 'shape' the sound, but I usually leave the tone controls on defeat.
D
Deleted member 148505
The L25D modules - while not post-filter fb design - are very affordable at $30USD. They're very inexpensive for the price of admission to class D. I've used several and only had 1 fail. Not sure what the issue was, but for $30 I just chalked it up to a loss. That one experience hasn't stop me from using them. I generally buy the assembled modules, so they come adjusted from the factory which is fine with me. I'm liking their sound signature more and more, but then again, I like the edgy highs and prominence and clarity of the mids.
Nice looking amp you've got there. I'll have to try a tube front-end someday. I'm mostly a solid-state guy, but certainly not opposed to tubes. Which particular tube kit did you use in your amp? That looks like one along offers in his eBay store.
Rick, have you noticed any difference in the sound between them?
Whoa, edgy highs?!
That's the first time I've heard that said, and is not what I like.
D
Deleted member 148505
This is the reason I don't like subjective claims. I'm not good at describing what I like when it comes to music. I just know it when I hear it. And, there all kinds of room for reader interpretation.
Edgy highs was probably a bad choice of words. I like highs to sparkle, but not make you cringe. I also like to hear the vocal attack of the words, by listening for close miking so I can hear them take a breath, the sustain of a vocal phrase, the movement of fingers on a guitar string, etc. So much music seems buried and sounds distant, but I like to hear the music coming right off the edge of the speaker instead of deep down inside. Class D seems to deliver that for me. My class A/B amp just doesn't have the same overall sonic characteristics. Perhaps it's the style of music and sonics I prefer. Does that make any sense? BTW, neither of my two stereo rigs have sub-woofers attached. And with bookshelf speakers they are probably warranted. I'm know they would add a significant depth to the sound. In my new home, I'll have more room to spread out so will probably add them at some point.
So far as the difference between the two 2092 builds.... I haven't listened too much to the Cristi variety amp yet, using the same source and speakers in a somewhat A/B test comparison. They are both connected to different sets of speakers. But, what I have listened to, I'd say they are very close in overall sound. I certainly can't tell a big difference, and until I hook them to the same set of speakers, any difference is likely to be influenced by the speaker signature themselves. My DefTech Studio Monitors were about 5 times the price of my Andrew Jones designed Pioneer bookshelf speakers, and have passive woofers.
So it really is an unfair comparison now. The Cristi amp is actually being used as my stereo rig with the DefTechs in my home-away-from-home apt in CT, while we wait for an impending household move. BTW, the Cristi amp is dead quiet too. Sadly, all my amp projects are on hold for the foreseeable future. One of these days I'll do a proper A/B test to see if I can hear any significant differences - operative word being significant. I will admit that class D can be fatiguing, but I try and listen beyond that element (or maybe I'm used to it!), because of what I like in music and want to hear.I have a favorite country CD, Common Thread - Songs of the Eagles, that I really like to listen to on my amps. It's become my test CD. Not as a torture test, but how well it presents the music. The dynamic range of well-recorded country music that ranges from steel-guitars, to piano and electric bass can be impressive - whether you like country music or not. And if you have a good, male baritone voice on a track all the better. But the mixing and production is so critical and certainly not found on alot of CDs today!
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Thanks for the clarification, I feel better; I'm waiting on Cristi's latest iteration of his IRS2092 modules.
Now I feel worse.
Noah,
I guess another way to describe these (2092 based) class D amps is that they are 'lively' compared to other SS or class A, A/B amps. They are not mellow in any sense of the word, so if that's what you are after look elsewhere. I don't know what makes that true. Even when I have them hooked to my Energy RC-30s, while there is more bass, there's still the bright side of them.
Having said that however, I have a Pioneer HT receiver I bought a few years ago featuring the trademarked B&O ICEPower class D amp modules and I can't tell you the pure joy it is to listen to. It is the smoothest and most 'silkiest' sound I've ever heard. The music just oozes out of whatever speakers I have it hooked to and it always sound marvelous. It has way more 'finesse' than these little 2092 modules - not that the LJMs are bad, just a different sonic signature. Then of course you can't compare a $30 module to a $2k receiver! And that's an important distinction that needs to be noted. B&O must be doing something right and magical to make them sound the way they do. But if you're not a class D devotee, you may not care. One of these days, I'm going to DIY an amp using the ICE modules and see how they compare. But I digress.
Not sure if this helps, but thot I'd share.
Yes, thanks for the elaboration.
I'd noted your remarks on the Pioneer before, but thought you were talking about subtle differences, whereas now it sounds like it's more than that.
One thing is for sure, the Pioneer sound you describe sounds more appealing to me than the 2092; I'm very sensitive to anything approaching edgy/harsh/bright.
Oh, and is your comparison apples to apples, i.e. the only difference in the listening chain was the amps?
I'd noted your remarks on the Pioneer before, but thought you were talking about subtle differences, whereas now it sounds like it's more than that.
One thing is for sure, the Pioneer sound you describe sounds more appealing to me than the 2092; I'm very sensitive to anything approaching edgy/harsh/bright.
Oh, and is your comparison apples to apples, i.e. the only difference in the listening chain was the amps?
No, it was not a scientific test. It was just the same source, the amps, and different speakers. At some point after I move, I'll do a more comprehensive listening evaluation of the two amps. Class D to me is just a much more detailed sound. It jumps out at you with much more clarity, distinction and authority. I guess some have described this as edgy, including myself. It's not a laid back sound IMO. But of course, choice of speakers and the addition of a sub-woofer would influence the sound.
Rick
Impact of input cap on sound question
I have removed the input cap on my L15D-pro boards since the are connected to the source via transformers. (and never connected them with the caps in place)
I have read (don't remember where) that removing the caps makes the boards sound brighter/thinner? Is this cap changing the sonic signature of the board?
What is your advice? I can put them back now as I am rebuilding the cases and adding an extra channel (to get 8 channels paired to the MiniDSP 4x8).
Thanks
Peter
I have removed the input cap on my L15D-pro boards since the are connected to the source via transformers. (and never connected them with the caps in place)
I have read (don't remember where) that removing the caps makes the boards sound brighter/thinner? Is this cap changing the sonic signature of the board?
What is your advice? I can put them back now as I am rebuilding the cases and adding an extra channel (to get 8 channels paired to the MiniDSP 4x8).
Thanks
Peter
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Hi Peter,
I've been using my L25D modules, fully assembled as they came from the vendor, and I have not made any mods - yet. So, I don't have any first hand experience about the input caps of these 2092 modules. Most caps do have an affect on the sound, usually the higher frequencies - generally reducing it. Most ppl leave input caps in place to block DC voltage - hence why most assembled modules include them, but those more daring remove them.
So, by removing the i/p caps, any amp would generally sound slightly brighter. But these class D amps already sound bright enough for me. I'm very skeptical about parts removal and/or swapping in general, unless I know there's a marked impact on the sound - hopefully better. But too often the changes are subjectively measured and therefore IMO less reliable. I prefer a more quantifiable approach to mods. But that's just me. There's an expectation bias that's very difficult to overcome. But I digress - again. caps refitted
So I refitted the original caps to the units that will be doing the low section and fitted oscons to the ones that are taking the mids and high sections.
Good to have some spare stuff in the drawer.
Will finish the amps tonight or tomorrow and will tell my completely subjective results
So I refitted the original caps to the units that will be doing the low section and fitted oscons to the ones that are taking the mids and high sections.
Good to have some spare stuff in the drawer.
Will finish the amps tonight or tomorrow and will tell my completely subjective results
I agree, different speakers will contribute more to a different sound. However, I think the overall sound of the 2092 is going to be very similar in it's native form - from one module to another. There just can't be that much of a sonic difference between stock amplifiers. I think the Cristi (Connexelectronic) 2092 modules use pre-filter fb design too, as opposed to post-filter fb like the Hypex modules. I haven't investigated making any mods to the LJM modules to tweak the sound yet. Maybe someday.
Different rooms, so I admit too many variables for a true A/B comparison.
I changed my L15D input caps to Elna Silmic II some time ago . In the beginning I was not sure , found the sound a little duller , but they opened up after some days and the difference is very noticable . The amps sounding a bit warmer , more detailed .
I still have one original unmodded L15D and did A/B listening test and ( for me ) the Silmic's are a nice inprovement ( As is the upgrade of the decouplers with Panasonics 820uF low ESR's from RS )
Cheers ,
Rens