That's fine that you have the old bearing housing. So as soon that you can measure the spindle, I can send you my details by PM. Sending the bearing to my address should not be too expensive I think.
I'm also quite curious to see that Tidorfolon; searching with Google does not find a manufacturer.
Greetings, H.
I'm also quite curious to see that Tidorfolon; searching with Google does not find a manufacturer.
Greetings, H.
Hi
Out of curiosity, I had a look around and "Tidorfolon" seems to have been registered as a trademark in Germany in 1998 - but apparently this expired in 2008.
IIRC, this material (maybe under another name) is said to have originated in bearings designed for use in the food industry, where lubricating oil would obviously be out of place.
Whether this makes it suitable for turntable bearings is another question. However, it doesn't sound as though it's the main cause of the OP's problems.
HTH
Mark
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It's not supposed to oxidize like organic. Whenever I work on a clock that's anywhere from 10 years old to 200 years old, the old oil turns black and gummy. Honestly, the gummy part actually saves many mechanisms, as it just stops the clock, and the lack of lubrication becomes a moot point, it ain't goin anywhere.
The synthetics are touted as impervious to that. I use nano-oil. It has microscopic balls in suspension...I suspect they're carbon buckyballs (IIRC, they are 90 nanometers diameter.), that are supposed to aid in the movement. St. Claire sells it.
jn
My car uses synthetic 5W30, so it was easy to change 
Not sure if additives are not bad for the bronze...
Sound quality has improved with the synthetic oil. Not that it ever was a problem. Even in a temporary plinth with a cheap arm and cart, the sound is remarkably good. Honestly, i have never heard an RB300 sound this good...
Not sure if additives are not bad for the bronze...
Sound quality has improved with the synthetic oil. Not that it ever was a problem. Even in a temporary plinth with a cheap arm and cart, the sound is remarkably good. Honestly, i have never heard an RB300 sound this good...
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My car uses synthetic 5W30, so it was easy to change
Not sure if additives are not bad for the bronze...
Sound quality has improved with the synthetic oil. Not that it ever was a problem. Even in a temporary plinth with a cheap arm and cart, the sound is remarkably good. Honestly, i have never heard an RB300 sound this good...
That turntable actually looks pretty good. Which aisle at Home Depot did you find it in? j/k
In honor of Buckminister Fuller, more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminsterfullerene
Yes.
Thanks. I still look every so often, but don't seem to find anything interesting to discuss.
jn
My car uses synthetic 5W30, so it was easy to change
Not sure if additives are not bad for the bronze...
Neither am I. But I'm sure synthetic for the crankcase does have lots of them. The nano-oil is being pushed for use to lube clocks. One typical repair technique is called re-bushing, where a brass or bronze bushing is installed in the clock plates. Given the clocks I work on range from 1622 to present, I can't think that the nano-oil would contain any additives which would attack bronze, brass, tool steel from the 1600's on. Lots of different alloys in that time span.
I use 5, 10, and 85 weight.
jn
You don't need to remove the bottom thrust bearing.
Unless it is deformed, chipped or the like, it will run smoothly on the ball that is on the end of the shaft, imo.
Assuming the problem is the upper bearing it is not terribly difficult to remove it... worst case it could be cut out. Even if there was a thing saw kerf made into the housing, that is actually something of an advantage in as much it will permit the platter to slide in since the air pressure below the bearing (when it has a proper fit) will be nil thanks to the path through the kerf(s).
Andrew properly stated one method of hydraulically removing bearings. Best left for a proper machinist. You don't want to *WANG* the thrust bearing on the bottom of the housing along the way...
I'd suggest that any high quality machinist could lap the shaft (if needed) and fit a new bearing into the housing with little difficulty. You would need to spec the "runout" (quality of fit) however.
The bearing you showed is definitely cross hatched, but somewhat crudely for the tolerances desired - perhaps they did this to obtain a fit after "run in" - saves the work of getting the bearing machined precisely.
Also imo, the shaft looks like "ca-ca"... not terribly smooth, some pitting showing. Regardless, a nice lapping, and it will have a much smoother surface. The roundness ought to be checked too... it may or may not be terribly round, but one would expect it to be round enough.
I'd leave the bottom thrust bearing for now...
When you said that you could hear the platter turn, was this un-oiled?? And what sort of noise did you hear?? It's rather unusual to hear a noise with this sort of bearing set up, maybe even un-oiled, imo.
Having said all that, I'd expect that the housing might want to be filled up with enough oil so that there is a constant oil contact between the rotating shaft and the bottom of the bronze bearing, maintaining a constant oil surface there, even though the mfr seems to think that sufficient oil will be held in the bearing surface.
I too like jneutron like the synthetic oils for many uses, like this one.
So is there OIL in the bearing now??
Unless it is deformed, chipped or the like, it will run smoothly on the ball that is on the end of the shaft, imo.
Assuming the problem is the upper bearing it is not terribly difficult to remove it... worst case it could be cut out. Even if there was a thing saw kerf made into the housing, that is actually something of an advantage in as much it will permit the platter to slide in since the air pressure below the bearing (when it has a proper fit) will be nil thanks to the path through the kerf(s).
Andrew properly stated one method of hydraulically removing bearings. Best left for a proper machinist. You don't want to *WANG* the thrust bearing on the bottom of the housing along the way...
I'd suggest that any high quality machinist could lap the shaft (if needed) and fit a new bearing into the housing with little difficulty. You would need to spec the "runout" (quality of fit) however.
The bearing you showed is definitely cross hatched, but somewhat crudely for the tolerances desired - perhaps they did this to obtain a fit after "run in" - saves the work of getting the bearing machined precisely.
Also imo, the shaft looks like "ca-ca"... not terribly smooth, some pitting showing. Regardless, a nice lapping, and it will have a much smoother surface. The roundness ought to be checked too... it may or may not be terribly round, but one would expect it to be round enough.
I'd leave the bottom thrust bearing for now...
When you said that you could hear the platter turn, was this un-oiled?? And what sort of noise did you hear?? It's rather unusual to hear a noise with this sort of bearing set up, maybe even un-oiled, imo.
Having said all that, I'd expect that the housing might want to be filled up with enough oil so that there is a constant oil contact between the rotating shaft and the bottom of the bronze bearing, maintaining a constant oil surface there, even though the mfr seems to think that sufficient oil will be held in the bearing surface.
I too like jneutron like the synthetic oils for many uses, like this one.
So is there OIL in the bearing now??
The bearing assembly came back fro the factory pre-oiled and judging by the apparent lack of spillage, there was sufficient oil as per their schedule.
Without even opening the spindle/sleeve assembly it was obvious there was a grinding noise and vibrations could be felt even by holding the bearing sleeve in hand while slowly spinning. An immediate email to the the manufacturer came back with the recommendation to run it in for a while and the promise the grinding noise would come down.
After 48 hours of non-stop spinning there was only a very mild reduction in noise. At around this time i read Jneutron's post #41, panicked and began polishing the spindle. Just a reminder: the panic was also the result of having already seen a bearing that apparently destroyed itself before running in.
The polished spindle produced much less noise and after a few hours of spinning the noise disappeared almost completely. At this stage i decided that the the first oil change was probably due, took the platter out and noticed both the upper and lower bushings had left a mark on the spindle. New oil is synthetic 5w30.
What appears to be the main problem is the soft steel of the spindle and the hard edges and rough surface of the bushings. Even if the bushings have not been properly impregnated, there is still sufficient lubrication on the surface. And yet, the spindle gets marked.
One would expect a "mark" on the shaft, in effect it is a "polishing".
You see it on automobile crankshafts for example.
But you did not characterize the sound of that "noise". Would be good to know more about how it sounds...
There is a *lower* bushing like the upper one?? Plus the thrust bearing that takes the ball??
Most, iirc, have only an upper bearing and the lower ball.
Can you pull the shaft out and shoot a picture of the "marks"??
Also a picture of the current state of the upper bushing??
You see it on automobile crankshafts for example.
But you did not characterize the sound of that "noise". Would be good to know more about how it sounds...
There is a *lower* bushing like the upper one?? Plus the thrust bearing that takes the ball??
Most, iirc, have only an upper bearing and the lower ball.
Can you pull the shaft out and shoot a picture of the "marks"??
Also a picture of the current state of the upper bushing??
Post #59. It is easier to feel the ridges than to see them in the pic. And this is after only about 24hrs of spinning.
The upper bushing looks and feels unchanged. to post #3
More pics possibly next week as i feel taking the spindle out and putting it back in causes some additional trauma as the lips of the bushings are quite sharp.
As i mentioned several times, the bearing looks inspired by the Thorens TD124: upper and lower bushings and a thrust plate/ball.
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