There's a simpler, 100hz mid bass horn I just introduced on my site. It's quite a bit easier to fabricate.
inlowsound.com
inlowsound.com
John, I find your website to be one of the nicest out there! Problem is I want to build everything in itCould you say anything about the difference between the 80hz and the 100hz regarding sound quality, physical impact, blending with the subs etc.?
Chris
That's a really nice compliment, Chris! Thanks.
I can hear a slight difference between both horns. The 100hz horn seems to blend well with the high frequency horn (better than the 80hz horn), and has plenty of punch/snap, but I can hear that the snap of the bass and tom drums is higher in frequency than that of the 80hz horn. That difference means the subwoofer has to have similar characteristics, or the ears notices in and A/B comparison between the 100hz/80hz horns. Though extremely powerful, my tapped horn doesn't have near the punch of the mid bass horns at 100hz, so I can tell the drums are slightly compromised. That being said, compromise is why I designed the 100hz horn -- some folks just can't tolerate the size of the 80hz horn. The 100hz version is an excellent step in the right direction with only a slight sonic penalty. Now, if you happen to own a Lab 12 horn, or my folded bass horn, you'd never notice the sonic difference because you'd be crossing over at 100hz, whereas I cross the Tapped horn at 80hz, therefore the 100hz horn just makes more sense with the folded horn.
Hope this was useful to someone
This is very useful! Thanks for sharing John. I have to decide what horn to build, and will probably go for the 80hz in the end. Better to build the big one first, and if wife goes mad, just build the smaller one Well, she is usually very nice when it comes to this, and they wil be placed in a dedicated room. The only concern is that my youngest will crawl into the horn and get stucked!
Must build a tower sub as well to get the lower end. Have looked at the Mach5, and they seem awsome. Problem is the price when shipping to Norway. Have to look at other options also.
Well, she is usually very nice when it comes to this, and they wil be placed in a dedicated room. The only concern is that my youngest will crawl into the horn and get stucked!Must build a tower sub as well to get the lower end. Have looked at the Mach5, and they seem awsome. Problem is the price when shipping to Norway. Have to look at other options also.
FWIW, Mark at Mach5 is looking at building a 21" woofer with > 30Xmax....wow!! To do it he was looking for 8 orders with a $300 deposit (I think $300 CDN) end cost might be up around $500 but Mark would have to confirm. Thats impressive displacement for the $$$ and it will be the best IB choice based on $$$/Displacement. IMO displacement is king when it comes to low frequency output.
Discussion on it can be found here
Would anyone be interested in a 21" subwoofer? - AVS Forum
Hi All,
First off, I'd like to thank carpenter for his fine work and contributions to the DIY community. Thanks carpenter!
I’m hoping that I can get some advice on the feasibility of lowering the cutoff of the 100 Hz horn down to 80 Hz? I know, build the 80 Hz horn, but I would like to keep the high end where the 100 Hz design is, and it seems like the B&C driver sounds better. I’ve been trying to model both horn in Hornresp but haven’t been able to yet (very new to Hornresp).
Am I trying to get too wide a range?
My plans are to build 250 Hz tractrix horns and cross them over too the bidbass horn around 500 Hz. Then add a bass speaker (horn?) below 80 Hz. I’d like to keep the lower crossover frequency so that I can get below the directionality issue around 100 Hz so that I only need one common bass speaker.
I’m not asking for a new design but just some advice (unless someone has too much time on their hands ;-)
Thanks
Bob
First off, I'd like to thank carpenter for his fine work and contributions to the DIY community. Thanks carpenter!
I’m hoping that I can get some advice on the feasibility of lowering the cutoff of the 100 Hz horn down to 80 Hz? I know, build the 80 Hz horn, but I would like to keep the high end where the 100 Hz design is, and it seems like the B&C driver sounds better. I’ve been trying to model both horn in Hornresp but haven’t been able to yet (very new to Hornresp).
Am I trying to get too wide a range?
My plans are to build 250 Hz tractrix horns and cross them over too the bidbass horn around 500 Hz. Then add a bass speaker (horn?) below 80 Hz. I’d like to keep the lower crossover frequency so that I can get below the directionality issue around 100 Hz so that I only need one common bass speaker.
I’m not asking for a new design but just some advice (unless someone has too much time on their hands ;-)
Thanks
Bob
I was really hoping the B&C 12PE32 would bring something new to the table, but looking at its parameters it seems very similar to the E-120 and also my current JBL 2202H. I should probably look at the 18" you mentioned earlier to get slightly lower, because it is really bugging me not to reach low enough with the 2202H in a straight horn. I want it to play from 80 or 100 Hz to 400Hz.
I am using a LAB12 in a sonotube below 90Hz. Higher than 90Hz sounds uninteresting. It may sound better in a Labhorn.
I am using a LAB12 in a sonotube below 90Hz. Higher than 90Hz sounds uninteresting. It may sound better in a Labhorn.
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I've added information to the 60hz hyperbolic bass horn page. Using a 10" B&C driver, it's capable of fairly wide range, but will sacrifice impulse response in the process. Still, I'm very excited about this design, and look forward to fabricating it one of these fine winter days.
The suspension on the B&C has problems at 400 Hz (as seen in the impedance trace).
It's also a little high in fs for its mms, and low in linear excursion.
Alternative suggestion:
FaitalPRO | LF Loudspeakers | 10PR410
Is that a LeCleach? Made out of paper mache? Neat.
Also, I wish I got a chance to see these! I have a house in Oregon City and lived there for half a decade. Lovely place.
Hi Scott,
The B&C 10md26 sims well, leaving me a strong desire to give it a try. I've had excellent results with B&C drivers, and I've used the 8" to the 21" models. Time will tell, I suppose. 1.5mm xmax may be a problem in a BR enclosure, but in a hyperbolic horn, I think it's not an issue.
As far as your link goes, it seems to be a dead end, can't get the page to load. Do you have the T/S specs? I'm always on the look out for a superior driver.
I'm not sure what page you're on, Patrick. All the paper horns to date have been a tractrix flair. If you ever get back to Oregon City, look me up. I'd love to share a listening session with you.
The 100 hz mid bass horn follows the predicted model posted on my website. It's extremely efficient and has excellent off axis response. It's so good that I have no desire to design another version. If I were to make a change, it would be to create a circular profile vs. square.
The 80 hz horn is an interesting device, but it doesn't incorporate as well with the paper horn (500 hz cutoff) as does the 100 hz mid bass unit. I believe that the highly efficient B&C 12PE32 is much lighter and has tremendous character/speed/impulse response vs. the 18" loaded 80 hz horn.
My spiral, subwoofer bass horns sound extremely good at 100 hz and are smooth all the way to the 20 hz cutoff. Their combined interaction is the reason that I prefer the 100 hz mid bass horn. I don't need a 80 hz cutoff, and associated trade-offs.
Wonderful project, I think you'll enjoy the process. Now, here's something of interest: I've modified the design so that the horn can be fabricated without the adapter chamber (that funnel in front of the driver). The prints will be available soon. Email me if you're interested.
I've also fabricated a 150hz mid bass horn variation using the B&C 8PE21 (super efficient/powerful 8" driver). It has no adapter chamber and has more definition in the upper frequencies than my original 12" mid bass horn. I will be making this plan available soon too.
I've come to the conclusion that I shouldn't make declarative statements unless I enjoy eating those words. Several posts before this one I stated that I'd never change the original mid bass horn design. Well, I have changed it, and find the the newer horn to be just as engaging, and much more capable of joining the high frequency horn in a seamless manner. Of course, the primary reason I've changed the horn is due to the fact that my Spiral Bass Horn is so smooth that it can easily crossover at 150 hz without resonance and distortion. You can read all about the spiral beast on my web site.
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