Yes. Given that they can reach up to something like 3.5k, they integrate well with almost any FR... comes down to getting XO right.
dave
Believe it or not Rullknufs, adults need to keep a close eye on what they spend... most have families to support, bills to pay... and spouses keeping an eye on the "extra" spending!
You will find out soon!Good to see you being disciplined in your approach and not succumbing to impulse buy - it is definitely a good habit. Has served me well over the years. Sadly don't see many of the younger generation (even our generation) having this good sense (off the
now)Sorry if my previous post came across as encouragement to splurge -in reality it was the opposite. I wrote it as words of encouragement to move ahead with your project with only 2 woofers/box and spend the extra money on 4 woofers/box only and if only necessary. Too many components will increase the project cost you know.
-Zia
Zia,
One of the points we have been trying to communicate is the versatility of FAST. Good mid-bass(es) + almost any extended range driver can be made to work. The key is that you use a mid-bass (typically good to >1kHz) and a FR you like.
For passive XO (as in our MA6 example) you XO in the flat impedance region of the drivers (250-400Hz) and here a 1st order series tends to work quite well, if going active, you have a little more latitude. Box shape plays a role too.
dave
Distance from the start (closed end) of the line to the woofer centre, in this case 168mm. From the dual version on the 2nd page, you can see 2 different ways of achieving that with 2 drivers.
dave
Humm. So the S-1 should not be used for XO?
Btw. I'm sorry but i haven't had time to hook it up today. Been at the town today getting a new haircut and shopping. Spent 2½ hours just traveling there and back home. Then working out, eating dinner and now it's a little late to play loud music. Will give it a try tomorrow though.
What i mean with integrate well, is that the bass is not too loud, too weak, too slow or anything. It should sound well. Not too much, neither too little.
Back to the XO again. Do you suggest passive or active XO? The advantage with passive XO is that it would probably be cheaper since i only need one amp. Although it reduces sound quality afaik (1st order not so much though). It also isn't changeable so when it's done it's done. My active S-1 makes me able to play around with XO.
I have a friend who has a T-Amp without power supply which he isn't using. He said i could borrow it or eventuelly buy it cheap. Since the EL70 don't need so much power maybe it would work?
Btw. I'm sorry but i haven't had time to hook it up today. Been at the town today getting a new haircut and shopping. Spent 2½ hours just traveling there and back home. Then working out, eating dinner and now it's a little late to play loud music. Will give it a try tomorrow though.
What i mean with integrate well, is that the bass is not too loud, too weak, too slow or anything. It should sound well. Not too much, neither too little.
Back to the XO again. Do you suggest passive or active XO? The advantage with passive XO is that it would probably be cheaper since i only need one amp. Although it reduces sound quality afaik (1st order not so much though). It also isn't changeable so when it's done it's done. My active S-1 makes me able to play around with XO.
I have a friend who has a T-Amp without power supply which he isn't using. He said i could borrow it or eventuelly buy it cheap. Since the EL70 don't need so much power maybe it would work?
There are drawbacks to every system, be it features, performance, or price.
The louder and deeper your speakers can play the less integrated the woofers will be with the EL70.
I had different criteria that led me to the twin EL70. I was looking for good performance down to about the 60hz range, and making at least a decent effort below that while still being capable of elevated volume levels and a reasonable price. Another key considerations was size, so it appears to satisfy the criteria that I had quite well. Different criteria probably would have landed me at a different speaker choice.
You very clearly like the EL70 in the current enclosure, even though yours is not to spec and uses particle board. A twin EL70 would be more of what you like, but possibly not quite different enough if you not only want more volume, but more low end kick to go with that volume. I am far too inexperienced to even imagine what difference would occur from a material change. On both items, either Dave or Chris would be fare more useful that I an hope to be.
Following that up, you also have price considerations to take into account. That means that since you like the EL70 you already have you probably want to continue to use them if possible. Now you need to find the other basic criteria to use for deciding what you want to do next. After that, determine what you are willing to give up from that list of criteria since you do have a price ceiling.
The louder and deeper your speakers can play the less integrated the woofers will be with the EL70.
I had different criteria that led me to the twin EL70. I was looking for good performance down to about the 60hz range, and making at least a decent effort below that while still being capable of elevated volume levels and a reasonable price. Another key considerations was size, so it appears to satisfy the criteria that I had quite well. Different criteria probably would have landed me at a different speaker choice.
You very clearly like the EL70 in the current enclosure, even though yours is not to spec and uses particle board. A twin EL70 would be more of what you like, but possibly not quite different enough if you not only want more volume, but more low end kick to go with that volume. I am far too inexperienced to even imagine what difference would occur from a material change. On both items, either Dave or Chris would be fare more useful that I an hope to be.
Following that up, you also have price considerations to take into account. That means that since you like the EL70 you already have you probably want to continue to use them if possible. Now you need to find the other basic criteria to use for deciding what you want to do next. After that, determine what you are willing to give up from that list of criteria since you do have a price ceiling.
I's have to look up the specifics of the S1, but i believe it is stereo, but with a range that limits you to the lower ranges suggested for XO (at least without going in and modifications).
Active is my preferred technique, it gives you more versatility and is really required to get an XO <200 Hz which is where i tend to prefer things.
dave
It's ok if i don't get the very deepest bass as long as they integrate well, which is the most important factor.
I could think of doing smaller modifications to the S-1 if needed.
http://www.reckhorn.com/manual/manual_s1.pdf
I could think of doing smaller modifications to the S-1 if needed.
http://www.reckhorn.com/manual/manual_s1.pdf
well of course you could go high level passive at frequencies as low at that, but the advantages of line level are hard to ignore:
1) size / cost of parts of passive components gets downright silly,
2) if much attenuation is required, the cost of amplifier power to torque through could raise the combined budget to more than a simple line level XO and pair of small class T amps
3) a lot of us already have multiple amps lying about waiting to be used
4) line level is so much more flexible, and far less costly when using passive filters.
That is why multiplies were suggested. And that particular driver because of the budget. In use, its performance exceeded my expectation.
dave
A new fav song. Jacob's Dream with Alison Krauss. Goosebumps because of three reasons. Her voice, the recording quality and the lyrics
y'all want goose bumps?
Loretta McKennitt - Nights at Alhambra -
Download excerpts and lyrics at
Quinlan Road - Explore The Music - Nights From The Alhambra
Stolen Child
Penelope's Song
Dante's Prayer
Lady of Shalott
get the DVD package set if only for the cello player
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
if opportunity arises to see Loreena and troop live in concert - don't miss it
and how could I forget from the top of my short list of "less (instrumentation / production) is more "(emotional power)
Eva Cassidy
Tall Trees in Georgia -(probably a bit obscure, but he following likely aren't)
Fields of Gold
Over the Rainbow
Danny Boy
even if you thought - "never again" - maybe you haven't yet heard them this way yet
Eva Cassidy
Tall Trees in Georgia -(probably a bit obscure, but he following likely aren't)
Fields of Gold
Over the Rainbow
Danny Boy
even if you thought - "never again" - maybe you haven't yet heard them this way yet
I've been looking at some other woofer at a much higher price-range (500-700SEK each) and they shouldn't produce any more bass than the EL166 would. Same Sd, same Xmax and pretty much the same efficiecy.
For a woofer the EL166/Woofer 6 seems to be the best choice. If i would need some more low-end grunt i could use my two 10" subs and let them play like <50Hz or something. The question is though how to XO that...
But i will take a look at the box to the left in the second page of the papers that Dave posted. Is it necessary to make an own chamber for the EL70? Would it be possible with the "slim baffle" version?
And by the way, wont i get any bonus since it's a MLTL? I'm thinking of the bass-regions.
For a woofer the EL166/Woofer 6 seems to be the best choice. If i would need some more low-end grunt i could use my two 10" subs and let them play like <50Hz or something. The question is though how to XO that...
But i will take a look at the box to the left in the second page of the papers that Dave posted. Is it necessary to make an own chamber for the EL70? Would it be possible with the "slim baffle" version?
And by the way, wont i get any bonus since it's a MLTL? I'm thinking of the bass-regions.
I've been trying to fit the dual-woofer small-baffle version of that MLTL. I once got all the pieces to fit onto one 2500x1250 board with grain-matching. I managed to click it away and now i can't recreate it!!! Is it possible to fit on one board? If so i'll build in birchply.
I can get it like this:
But the top pieces are number 5 and 6, so grain-matching would be weird i think, don't you?
Parts list is this
I can get it like this:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
But the top pieces are number 5 and 6, so grain-matching would be weird i think, don't you?
Parts list is this
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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How thick is the wood you are using?
You'll always get an argument as to whether the grain match should like like it wraps from side over the top to the other side or whether it should look like it wraps from front over the top to the back. We do the former (looks like that is how you have it wrapped)
dave
You'll always get an argument as to whether the grain match should like like it wraps from side over the top to the other side or whether it should look like it wraps from front over the top to the back. We do the former (looks like that is how you have it wrapped)
dave
Yes an internal enclosure is required for the EL70. This does not need to be a short TL, sealed would work as well. An irregular shape is good thou. You could even use something like a ceramic plat pot or a deep dish (don't let your mom catch you raiding the dishes drawer)
Yes. Bass is quite nice.
dave